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Marahuta In reply to ??? [2012-01-03 13:37:53 +0000 UTC]

hmmm. That's sorta where I am too Just wondering how much do you know about the trinity ? ( no criticizing, it's just the most common mistake muslims make, so, I'm just wondering )

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Nayzak In reply to Marahuta [2012-01-03 14:41:50 +0000 UTC]

you want me to explain the trinity to you?

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Marahuta In reply to Nayzak [2012-01-03 16:06:28 +0000 UTC]

no, just if you know what it is It;s the most common mistake muslims make. So, just asking

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Nayzak In reply to Marahuta [2012-01-04 07:05:00 +0000 UTC]

Well, according to what I know, the trinity is one of the religious concepts that can't be explained. Christians believe God is a triune god. according to them, God has three entities in one being. the Father, the Son, and the Holy spirit. according to them, the father is god, the son is god, and the holy spirit is god. but they are not three gods, but one god. according to them, God exists in three Persons, the father is a person, the son is a person, and the holy spirit is a person. but they are not three persons but one person!!! Christians believe that these are distinct but yet unseparated.

someone needs to notice that the word "trinity" doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible. this most fundamental concept doesn't appear clearly and precisely without any ambiguity in the scripture. whether old testament or new testament. the concept is "interpreted" based on Christian doctrine. Some Christian scholars say that the trinity is a concept that was understood through time. it took centuries for Christians to establish it and make it official. I also saw some Christians who say the trinity can't be explained, so according to them, you gotta believe in it like that in order to be saved.

This is the summary of what I know about the trinity.
I'd like to add that the holy Qur'an surprisingly mentions the trinity. but to my knowledge, the Qur'an doesn't specify its details (as it's not really important. why? because no matter what parts are in the trinity, it's rejected by Islam as a whole). Here, I'd like to mention that some Christians (and even some Muslims) when reading the verses related to Jesus -peace be upon him-, misunderstand and they assume the lady Mary -may God be pleased with her- is part of the trinity. this is false. because the Qur'an doesn't say that. the only thing the Qur'an states in this regard is that Mary was/is worshipped as well as Jesus. and this is a fact. there were some Christian sects who worshipped Mary and there are even some now who do so.


in the end, I'd like to quote how Allah, the God, answers the trinitarians in his final revelation: Holy Qur'an. he says:
يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لَا تَغْلُوا فِي دِينِكُمْ وَلَا تَقُولُوا عَلَى اللَّهِ إِلَّا الْحَقَّ ۚ إِنَّمَا الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَاهَا إِلَىٰ مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِّنْهُ ۖ فَآمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ ۖ وَلَا تَقُولُوا ثَلَاثَةٌ ۚ انتَهُوا خَيْرًا لَّكُمْ ۚ إِنَّمَا اللَّهُ إِلَٰهٌ وَاحِدٌ ۖ سُبْحَانَهُ أَن يَكُونَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ ۘ لَّهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ ۗ وَكَفَىٰ بِاللَّهِ وَكِيلًا
O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion. nor say about Allah except the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one God: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
The holy Qur'an - translation of 4:171
also
لَّقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ ثَالِثُ ثَلَاثَةٍ ۘ وَمَا مِنْ إِلَٰهٍ إِلَّا إِلَٰهٌ وَاحِدٌ ۚ وَإِن لَّمْ يَنتَهُوا عَمَّا يَقُولُونَ لَيَمَسَّنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِنْهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ
They do blaspheme who say: God is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.
أَفَلَا يَتُوبُونَ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَيَسْتَغْفِرُونَهُ ۚ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ
Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
The holy Qur'an - translation of 5:73-74

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Marahuta In reply to Nayzak [2012-01-04 12:37:38 +0000 UTC]

You got it quite right

That is what the Quran says.
The bible says.
John 8:58 - "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."

Here Jesus says.
John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

John 14:11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

John 8:24 - "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins."

John 17:11 I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one.

Different religions different views.

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After--Life In reply to Marahuta [2012-02-18 05:00:49 +0000 UTC]

Jesus (as) made many distinctions between himself and God. And is you were an average educated Christian scholar, you would realize that most of the teachings in the New Testament were made up by later Christian rulers to fit their own political needs.

These people made up quotes that Jesus (as) himself never ever said, and compiled a new book for the current Christians to read. Most of the old scriptures that had the true meaning of the Gospel were destroyed, and this is history, not lies.

And even the Bible contradicts itself at times.

Luke
18A certain ruler asked him, "Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
19"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone.

There, Jesus (as) made a clear distinction between himself and God. If Jesus (as) was also God, then he wouldn't have stopped the man from calling him a good teacher.

By the way, there are many quotes in the Bible that talk about violence, and God being evil etc etc. I don't want to sound rude, but when reading these verses, you start questioning your own faith.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

1 Samuel 16:14
But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

Judges 9:23
Then God sent an evil spirit

2 Kings 22:16 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place

Micah 2:3 Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, against this family do I devise an evil

And some of violence too.

"Leave alive nothing that breathes. Show them no mercy." [Deut. 7:2]

"The Lord hardened their hearts... that they might receive no mercy." [Joshua 11:20]

"I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the Lord: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them. A curse on him who is lax in doing the Lord's work! A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed." [Jer. 13:14; 48:10]

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The truth is now, you'll find none of these verses in the Qur'an, because the Qur'an has been preserved since it was revealed. Anybody who tried to alter the meanings of Qur'an were dealt by God.

There's MANY evidence regarding the truthfulness of Qur'an and the respect of it.

There was recently a man who devised a Qur'an burning day, and later on that same man was punished by God. How? The officials found he had saved data on young naked children, he was a pedo.

See how God punishes in the most humiliating ways?

Well, this is only the least of the facts that I can give you. If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask.

Assalamualakum, Peace be on to you.

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Marahuta In reply to After--Life [2012-03-21 20:58:26 +0000 UTC]

Apparently, your definition of a decent scholar is one who abandons his religion for yours. So, assuming that were even true, I am not a decent scholar. I am just a scholar. Well...actually I'm not even a scholar. Now, to continue.

I am sorry, but I cannot accept what you said about the bible being invalid since it is a basic form of muslim propaganda that says "You don't have the proper scriptures. We do." Wich is also used against the Jews. It is also a very good way of saying "Muhammad had been predicted in the Old and New Testaments (bible). But since they're no longer there then the scriptures have been changed and are no longer valid.". If only the Jews could do that to proove that Jesus was not the Messiah. But they didn't. (anyway, we're not here to talk about the Jews)

About Jesus denying that he is God. You should've done some research first before acusing. Read this [link] and this [link]

Isaiah 45:7
[link]

1 Samuel 16:14
Saul had become corrupt, ignorant and lustful for power. He wanted more and more. He imposed fear and behaved immoraly. So God's Grace/Spirit (the Holy Spirit) left him and to punish Saul God ordered an evil spirit to trouble him.

Judges 9:23
God has the power to do whatever and use whatever he wants. If wants to punish someone for something he can easily command a daemon or an evil spirit to trouble that person. Just because he uses these means doesn't mean he is bad. a punishment is a punishment. If he doesn't want to send an evil spirit he can make you sick, give you bad luck e.t.c.

2 Kings 22:16
Cutting verses now are we?
You only gave as evidence this bit ~Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place~. When you shoul've given this:

~Thus saith the Lord, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place~, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read: Because they have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the works of their hands; therefore my wrath shall be kindled against this place, and shall not be quenched.

Now you can see that God isn't just doing this because he had nothing to do. But because he was going to punish them for idolatry.

Micah 2:3
And again. You gave me this: ~Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, against this family do I devise an evil~. When you should've given me this:

Woe to them that devise iniquity, and work evil upon their beds! when the morning is light, they practise it, because it is in the power of their hand. And they covet fields, and take them by violence; and houses, and take them away: so they oppress a man and his house, even a man and his heritage. ~Therefore thus saith the Lord; Behold, against this family do I devise an evil~, from which ye shall not remove your necks; neither shall ye go haughtily: for this time is evil.

If you had read the whole thing you would've seen that God speaks of punishment from sins of hypocrites which sin at night but once the cun is up and they have control over their hands they behave properly.

Now, for the violence. Oh, and let us not forget that there is violence in the Quran too. Oh wait, those acts of violence were for defense and to establish a safe land to live in free of idolatry. Sounds alot like the verse below.

Deut 7:2
And again.
You only gave me this ~Leave alive nothing that breathes. Show them no mercy~ btw, I have searched for this little piece in many many places and have only rarely found it. Once or twice. However we pretty much have the same little violent piece here:

When Jehovah thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and shall cast out many nations before thee, the Hittite, and the Girgashite, and the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; and when Jehovah thy God shall deliver them up before thee, and thou shalt smite them; ~then thou shalt utterly destroy them: thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them~; neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. For he will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of Jehovah be kindled against you, and he will destroy thee quickly. But thus shall ye deal with them: ye shall break down their altars, and dash in pieces their pillars, and hew down their Asherim, and burn their graven images with fire.

You can clearly see now that God isn't telling the Jews to "Go and kill everyone and everything!". Rather, he is trying to protect them from idolatery. Also, it is the land that God promised and he will cast the former nations out and destroy them for their sake. He is telling them to make mixed marriages, because then they could get corrupted and turn towards idolatery, or the idolaters might revolt. So they should get rid of them to establish a safe home. Sorta like what's going on in Saudi Arabia. Not even Christians and Jews are allowed to build churches and temples. Imagine what would happen if hinus went there and built idolatric templs...all hell would break loose.

Joshua 11:20
And yet again. You gave me this ~The Lord hardened their hearts... that they might receive no mercy~. When you should've given me this:

So Joshua took all that land, the hills, and all the south country, and all the land of Goshen, and the valley, and the plain, and the mountain of Israel, and the valley of the same; Even from the mount Halak, that goeth up to Seir, even unto Baal-gad in the valley of Lebanon under mount Hermon: and all their kings he took, and smote them, and slew them. Joshua made war a long time with all those kings. There was not a city that made peace with the children of Israel, save the Hivites the inhabitants of Gibeon: all other they took in battle. For it was of ~the Lord to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly~, and that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the Lord commanded Moses. And at that time came Joshua, and cut off the Anakims from the mountains, from Hebron, from Debir, from Anab, and from all the mountains of Judah, and from all the mountains of Israel: Joshua destroyed them utterly with their cities. There was none of the Anakims left in the land of the children of Israel: only in Gaza, in Gath, and in Ashdod, there remained. So Joshua took the whole land, according to all that the Lord said unto Moses; and Joshua gave it for an inheritance unto Israel according to their divisions by their tribes. And the land rested from war.

This is basically a continuing of before. Now, the idolateres are being out of the land by God or just have been. God hardened the idolateres hearts so that they go to war with the Jews so God can drive them out and give the Jews the land he PROMISED.

Jer. 13:14
~I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the Lord: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.~
This has a big explanation. So here [link] On the left column is the passage. Right column is passage and explanations.

Jer. 48:10
~A curse on him who is lax in doing the Lord's work! A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed.~

Here God is cursing him who will not do what God has directly commanded. That time was not a time of "read past texts and analyse" It was a time when the texts and orders were given. If Allah or an angel appeared to you and told you to do something but you decided you couldn't be bothered wouldn't you be punished? In this case, the command was to fight for the land God PROMISED.

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I am sorry, but just because that man got punished that way doesn't proove anything. Simply because he was a known hypocrite. He went and preached the so called "word of God". He said he brought a new word, he said he could...I don't remember exactly what, but I think it was about the dead. He was a high-end extermist and was a VERY big hypocrite. Now, how do you know he was punished for his offense to Islam and not Christianity ?

btw, could you give me some evidence (witnesses, books e.t.c.) the Jesus wasn't crusified?

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After--Life In reply to Marahuta [2012-03-21 22:38:31 +0000 UTC]

Give me a short recap of all your main points thanks.

I'll certainly respond, I just need your main points that you are trying to get across.

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Marahuta In reply to After--Life [2012-03-22 06:08:36 +0000 UTC]

lol, long isn't it? Well, the midle bit is just my answer to the verses you acused. My main points are the 2 paragraphs before and after the verses. Here:

Apparently, your definition of a decent scholar is one who abandons his religion for yours. So, assuming that were even true, I am not a decent scholar. I am just a scholar. Well...actually I'm not even a scholar. Now, to continue.

I am sorry, but I cannot accept what you said about the bible being invalid since it is a basic form of muslim propaganda that says "You don't have the proper scriptures. We do." Wich is also used against the Jews. It is also a very good way of saying "Muhammad had been predicted in the Old and New Testaments (bible). But since they're no longer there then the scriptures have been changed and are no longer valid.". If only the Jews could do that to proove that Jesus was not the Messiah. But they didn't. (anyway, we're not here to talk about the Jews)

-----------------------------------------


verses

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I am sorry, but just because that man got punished that way doesn't proove anything. Simply because he was a known hypocrite. He went and preached the so called "word of God". He said he brought a new word, he said he could...I don't remember exactly what, but I think it was about the dead. He was a high-end extermist and was a VERY big hypocrite. Now, how do you know he was punished for his offense to Islam and not Christianity ?

btw, could you give me some evidence (witnesses, books e.t.c.) the Jesus wasn't crusified?

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After--Life In reply to Marahuta [2012-03-22 20:43:02 +0000 UTC]

God's signs are everywhere for us to see.

God favors Islam the most out of all the religions. That doesn't mean other people in other religions are not favored.

God knows the fate of every human being. What would you expect? If God wanted to punish a people as a sign, would he just do a magic fireball attack from the sky out of nowhere? No lol, he would do it like nobody expected it to happen.

You know the man Herman Cain who was going to run for president? And he had many supporters, and the thing that stood out was that he was against Muslims.

And guess what happened now. He later said he's dropping out because he has troubles with his family and wife and he won't be running for president.

See how God works?

He will do whatever he can to protect the chosen religion, the true religion. And there are tons and tons of signs out there, a simple Google search will guide you.

Both in the Bible and Qur'an it talks about the signs of God and how we should not deny any of them. Don't you agree?

Also, Jesus (as) was hung on the cross, but according to my own Islamic sect, (and we are the only sect who believe this), that Jesus (as) survived from the cross.

I can give you all the answers to that in this link here.

[link]

Clicking the "more" buttons will give you more info in detail taking verses from both Bible and Qur'an.

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Marahuta In reply to After--Life [2012-03-31 13:58:49 +0000 UTC]

God favors Islam the most out of all the religions. That doesn't mean other people in other religions are not favored.

This is very similar to the muslim belief that the gospels and the Torah are nolonger acurate. Now, if I give you Christian miracles you will tell me "I told you he favours other too." But I'd like to ask you...Why would God favour and give miracles to those that follow wrong paths which would in the end only enforce their belief and therefore continue leading them away from salvation?

God knows the fate of every human being. What would you expect? If God wanted to punish a people as a sign, would he just do a magic fireball attack from the sky out of nowhere? No lol, he would do it like nobody expected it to happen.
I never said something awesome should fall out of the sky to prove it was God. Relations between humans are results of human actions. God can interfere but there is no way to tell if it was God or not. An example would be any single family, including mine. My relation with my family is sometimes good and sometimes bad. Does that mean God likes me sometimes and is disapointed in me others? How can you tell if it was my doing or God's?

An example of a miracle would be when I accidentaly almost killed my father. I am not proud of this event but it fits in very well now. I remember we were at the beach and me and my brother were throwing fist sized rocks into the see from a big distance from the sea. Then, I accidentaly threw a rock high into the sky and it flew towards my dad's head. As it started to fall It was falling straight above his head but at the last second he thought he saw something in the distance and moved alittle, just enough for that rock to fall right next to his shoulder and only just giving him a scratch. I know that was God because I couldn't have randomly thrown it at the right height at the right distance and my dad couldn't have just randomly moved to see something JUST enough for that rock to miss his head giving him only a scratch. And then I remebered, a few years back during my cousin's baptism I found myself alone in the church and I quickly prayed "God, please keep my family safe." And to this day I have seen that prayer being answered time after time. I am not proud of it, nor do I do things just because I have seen these things and think nothing will happen. That prayer enforced my belief in Christianity like nothing else. Not even the pope could do a better job.

Also, Jesus (as) was hung on the cross, but according to my own Islamic sect, (and we are the only sect who believe this), that Jesus (as) survived from the cross.

The fact that that your sect believes in the crusifixion brings alittle bit closer to atleast being reasonable. It's atleast more reasonable than "you crucified the wrong guy." of some other sects.
Now, despite that little difference in sects, all of them accept that Jesus was the Messiah. Which also means you accept the scriptures about him. On this site you can see all the prophecies and requirements for one to be the Messiah [link] Amung the requirements are 1. The Messiah will die 2. He will be raised from the dead.

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After--Life In reply to Marahuta [2012-04-01 02:04:51 +0000 UTC]

1. Why would God give favors to people on the wrong path?

God has created you hasn't he? God saves whomever he pleases, and punishes whom he pleases. But if you want the most blessings, the most saves, the most forgiveness, then this is where RELIGION comes in. Judaism was the first favored religion, then Christianity. Now God has revealed to the whole world, that now after Christianity, it will be Islam that will be the most favored, and no new religion will be more favored after Islam. Christianity comes second, under Islam, then Judaism, according to Islamic belief. Because these religions are the 3 Abrahamic religions.

And how can God not love his own people? There's a verse in the Qur'an, and it'll answer your first statement.

Qur'an [5:70] Surely, those who have believed, and the Jews, and the Sabians, and the Christians — whoso believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, on them shall come no fear, nor shall they grieve.

2. Kind of like my first answer. To be able to tell what was God or not, it requires faith. In Islam, before we do anything, or before we do almost everything, we say "Bismillah", which means "In the Name of God." When we say that, whatever happens, the outcomes, are in God's hands, his Will.

When you threw that rock, it was definitely God who has saved you. Remember, God saves whom he pleases. And why would God NOT save you? You ARE his creation, and you aren't sinning, you are under the mercy of God almighty. Remember the verse I told you before.

Also, every human is predestined. It was simply not the time for your father to leave this world, God forbid. God decides what time, and you can pray for someone to have a longer life, and if God pleases, he will listen.

The thing about which religion God favors is simple to explain. If you're a Christian and you pray to God to help you for example, pass an exam. You WILL be answered, if you're constantly praying and remembering him, and studying yourself. (Because God says in Islam that he himself does not help you until you change yourself first. THEN he will help you succeed, he will guide you and not fail you.) So you ask God to help you pass your exam, if you are studying, HARD, then God will answer your prayers.

Take this same scenario and put it in a Muslim boy's life. He prays to Allah, (God in Arabic), 5 times a day, and also reads the Qur'an, and studies himself. And also, he says the short prayer, "Rabbi Zidni Ilma", "Oh God provide me with knowledge."

So if you compare the two, the Muslim's pleas will be more favored among God and his prayers have a more higher chance of being accepted.

Note, THIS DOES NOT MEAN that the Christian will be ignored, God answers EVERYONE'S prayers, it's just that Muslims in general will have a higher chance than any other religion. This is why God wants the Muslims to carry the message to the whole world, so that God favors everyone equally.

But another scenario, a Christian is more into God than a Muslim, then God will favor the Christian over the Muslim.

So not only does your religion come into play, but ALSO your FAITH. If a Christian is more into God than a Muslim, then God will favor the Christian, it's simple.

3. Jesus (as) was a prophet of Allah is the basic Islamic belief. Many Islamic sects are corrupted, this is why I have my sect. My sect answers all the doubts, and fixes all the corruption. Read my sig, that's my sect.

My sect does not believe that Jesus (as) died. He survived from the cross, like that one link I gave you, it showed all the signs from God and evidence of Jesus (as) being saved.

We believe that God cannot punish and kill his own mere prophet in a most humiliating way. God had a plan, and the FIRST PLAN that God had for Jesus (as) was to deliver the message to the 12 tribes of Isreal. Jesus (as) did not fulfill this when he was hung, so his time in the Earth was not done yet according to my sect.

God sent a terrible storm after a couple hours of Jesus (as) being hung, and all the Roman Guards fled, leaving Jesus (as) alone. Soon after, his family came and rescued him and brought him into a nearby cave where a doctor cured the prophet, and healed him.

Then later when he was fully healed, according to the Will of Almighty God, he disguised himself as a farmer, and left the city.

He traveled to fulfill the first Will of God, to deliver the message to the 12 tribes of Israel, and he did. He traveled to the remaining tribes an fulfilled the prophecy.

He died at age 120, and his tomb is in what is now known as India. You can search this up as well. He was buried by the Bhuddists I believe, where Jesus (as) preached to them, and the Bhuddists gave him a nick name there and buried him with that name, according to God. If the name "Jesus" (as) was on the tomb, then people would go and destroy it by thinking it was a false tomb etc. So this is how God saves the tomb of his beloved prophet.

And all of this is true, if you were a Muslim belonging to my sect, and this SHOULD be the universal truth as well, if people just believe.

So yes, the Messiah DID die, but not during the crucifixion, but at the age of 120. God granted him a great and long life.

The part about being raised from the dead is inaccurate because that is just a metaphor.

All the Muslims that are NOT part of my sect believe that Jesus (as) was raised from the cross into heaven, this is WRONG. In the Qur'an it says that Jesus was raised to the heavens etc. But what the mainstream Muslims don't realize is that the Qur'an is FILLED with metaphors, but they take it to literally.

When a person is dead does not mean they are dead PHYSICALLY, but SPIRITUALLY dead. As in their faith in God is WEAK, so they are considered dead. When a person is raised from the dead, it means that a person's faith finally rises and he believes in the oneness of God and his prophets, so his spirit, his soul ascends.

This is the definition.

God says in Islam that once a human is physically dead, they cannot come back to life in this material world, because Allah has created an unbreakable barrier that spirits cannot come back.

Instead, Allah raises the dead spirits again in the heavens and decides who goes to hell for a little while, and who enters paradise forever.

This will be known as Judgement day, the 5th Article of faith Islam.

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Marahuta In reply to After--Life [2012-05-06 16:53:08 +0000 UTC]

God has created you hasn't he? God saves whomever he pleases, and punishes whom he pleases. But if you want the most blessings, the most saves, the most forgiveness, then this is where RELIGION comes in.
My personal opinion is that God is an all loving father. We are all going to be judged the same way and nobody is to be favoured. If God favoured people just like that and condemned others just because he felt like it then he wouldn't be a Just Father. Giving advanteges to some children and not to the rest, caring more for some children and not for the others is something a good (in this case perfect) father would and should never do. He can if he wanted but then it wouldn't be fair.

Kind of like my first answer. To be able to tell what was God or not, it requires faith. In Islam, before we do anything, or before we do almost everything, we say "Bismillah", which means "In the Name of God." When we say that, whatever happens, the outcomes, are in God's hands, his Will.

Again my personal view along with what I've seen from my scriptures, God doesn't tamper with our lives. He doesn't our paths and condemn and save people dependng on what he feels like doing. If so, then going to hell would not be of our doing but God's. Wouldn't it? Failure and success is in our hands no matter what it is we are doing. God only looks after us, helping us when we aree in need and deserve it (acording to his judgement).

When you threw that rock, it was definitely God who has saved you. Remember, God saves whom he pleases. And why would God NOT save you? You ARE his creation, and you aren't sinning, you are under the mercy of God almighty. Remember the verse I told you before.
I might be his creation but personally I don't know if I deserved it. I have sined quite alot of times in my life (not major sins) and even when I said that prayer I was atheist. I'm still trying to figure out why I even bothered saying that prayer as an atheist. I don't know what God saw in me. All I know is he gave me such a smack, I aint leaving Christianity.

Jesus (as) was a prophet of Allah is the basic Islamic belief.
I have a hunch you don't know who and what Jesus is in Christianity, or the Trinity. If you do, it's not a good understanding. Could be wrong though...

He died at age 120
Personally I think God would not let a prophet at that time live that long. Back then condicions were very harsh. And if today being old can make people depresed Imagine what 120 would do to you 2000 years ago. Watch your friends die, be unable to walk, see properly (most likely). That would most likely be a slow and long awaited death, I don't think God would ever do that.

So yes, the Messiah DID die, but not during the crucifixion
There are prophecies about this.
Bible Prophecy: Psalm 22:1-2 says, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from the words of my groaning? O my God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, by night, and am not silent."
Fulfillment: Matthew 27:46 says, "About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, 'Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?' - which means, 'My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?'"

Bible Prophecy: Psalm 22:17-18 says, "I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing."
Fulfillment: John 19:23 says, "When the soldiers crucified Jesus, they took his clothes, dividing them into four shares, one for each of them, with the undergarment remaining. This garment was seamless, woven in one piece from top to bottom."

Isaiah 50:6
"I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my
face from shame and spitting."

Isaiah 53:5-7 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.

Isaiah 53:12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Resurection prophecies
Genesis 22:4 On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance.

Hosea 6:2 After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.

God says in Islam that once a human is physically dead, they cannot come back to life in this material world, because Allah has created an unbreakable barrier that spirits cannot come back.
God however can resurect himself whenever he pleases. Here's how it works for Christians.

Jesus is 100% man and God at the same time. On the cross, the human side died along with humanities sins. Therefore the Islamic definition fits perfectly here. Because Only Jesus' human side died. His divine side stayed behind, only to rise 3 days later, fullfiling the prophecies and returning to heaven.

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After--Life In reply to Marahuta [2012-05-07 00:53:51 +0000 UTC]

1. God is all loving, no doubts or question about it. God sees everybody EQUALLY but there is one EXCEPTION. The one who has more faith and trusts more in God and submits MORE to God is more favored than someone who refuses to do so. But he still loves his creation. He IS Just in Islam, this is one of his 99 names I believe as well. He is never unfair. If a MUSLIM does something wrong and a Christian does something right, then the Christian is favored. We are God's children metaphorically, but if we disobey his father, of course we have "time-outs" now don't we? And everything IS fair and equal the way we humans realize it.

2. This part is confusing but this is how it works. Pretend that life is a tree. God created this tree with ALL the branches, so he created your FUTURE in many different ways, and they all exist. It is now YOUR choice to PICK which individual branch you want to take. Humans are the only ones who have this freedom. God let's US decide which life we are going to live, and he KNOWS what our decisions are going to be. He KNOWS which branch of the tree we will pick, the good ones, or the bad ones. Since God is all knowing, what I mean he does what he pleases is that for example. A man is begging for mercy for a sin that he has done thousands of times in the past. Now it is God's CHOICE whether to forgive you or not, now isn't it? He is just, if you were good, he WILL place you in heaven or paradise, no question about that. It's his PLEASURE to do so.

3. You being Atheist or Christian has nothing to do with it. God is merciful, in Arabic, he is Raheem. A couple days ago, a boy pushed a girl in school and the girl fell back really fast and ALMOST hit her head on the top of the table. When I saw that how she got saved, I imminently thought of God, and thought how he has saved her. Like I said, he DECIDED to save her. He saves whom he pleases. The girl didn't do anything first of all, so why should she get punished? Nothing happened to the boy, so he was forgiven as well. God's mercy is everywhere! Whether you see it or not.

4. According to my belief. Islam knows more about the TRUE Jesus (as) than any other faith. First of all, the word Trinity is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible, and the word BIBLE is not mentioned anywhere in the 'Bible.' Trinity was a concept developed by latter Christian leaders/popes, not Jesus (as). Jesus (as) actually believed in the oneness of God, and told his followers to not think of him as a God nor the son of God, literally.

The Bible itself is a collection of stories, poems, and accounts, and dreams by people who came hundreds of years after Jesus (as) died, and these people put it all together and combined it with the Old Testament, that had also been corrupted by Kings, including King John, and called it the Bible. Within these periods, the concept of 'Trinity' had arisen, and the divinity of Jesus (as) had also come into play. All of these were false. Even the Qur'an talks about how Jesus (as) is not God, nor son, nor half-God, half-human, he was just a servant, a messenger.

It's immoral for God to have a son, he has all the power, why would he need a son?

Also, you say that Jesus (as) lived to 120 years. Well you see, prophets are messengers of God. They do as they are told. And NO prophet has died a humiliated death. Why would God kill his own son, or his own prophet on the cross? In the BIBLE, it says that anybody who is crucified on the cross is hell-bound. That means Jesus (as) went to hell right? Wrong.

God gave Jesus (as) an extended life. Yes, living to 120 may be a horrible experience for regular humans, but not for a prophet. Prophets only fear their Lord. And their Lord accompanies them to the journey.

Jesus (as) had a mission, a mission to spread the ONENESS of God to the 12 Tribes of Isreal, NOT the whole world, that was Muhammad (saw)'s job. Jesus (as) also has foretold the advent of Muhammad (saw). And Muhammad (saw) has also met Jesus (as) and Moses (as) in his dreams, which were by God.

Why would God need a human side in the first place? If God is immortal, he can make his human side immortal. God CREATED heaven, what do you mean he will 'return' to heaven? God is the RULER of this whole UNIVERSE. He created heaven and hell, he doesn't need these worldly pleasures. He doesn't need to breath, he doesn't need to sleep, to eat, to MARRY, etc etc.

He created these things for US humans. He created FRUITS for our sustenance. He created the sun and the moon, both under the command of God. If Jesus (as) was God, then he would have to keep an eye on every single tiny particle of this UNIVERSE all at one time!

Judaism came first. These were the people that believed in Moses (as), and the holy book sent to Moses (as) was the Torah.

Then came Christianity. It was founded by Jesus (as) who reaffirmed the Judaism religion that had become corrupt during his time. Jesus (as) taught to believe in one God and not associate any partners or sons with him. The old Christians were the TRUE Christians, but they weren't called Christians. They were just the TRUE Jews.

After the True Judaism, or Christianity as we call it today, came Islam, the last phase. And it was established by Muhammad (saw), the last and final messenger after Moses (as), and Jesus (as). Moses (as) and Jesus (as) have also had prophecies of the advent of the final messenger Muhammad (saw).

Muhammad (saw) came to spread the message to the whole world this time, and also reaffirm the Christian religion, that had become corrupt then.

See how it goes in order? First came Judaism, then Christianity, then Islam. The 3 Abrahamic religions.

Judaism used to be the favored religion of God, then Christianity, which was the True Judaism actually, and then Islam, and it still is now, because it's the LAST religion now as told by God Almighty himself.

There will be no new laws, all the laws of God, the final laws and commandments are in the Qur'an. Everything all the previous prophets taught, Moses (as), Adam (as), Abraham (as), Noah (as), Jesus (as), are ALL compacted into the Qur'an.

The final book of revelation.

Muhammad (saw) said himself. "In the Latter Days, the Sun shall rise from the West."

Islam = Sun, the West = The Western world/Europe.

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Marahuta In reply to After--Life [2012-05-07 09:36:02 +0000 UTC]

Pretend that life is a tree. God created this tree with ALL the branches, so he created your FUTURE in many different ways, and they all exist. It is now YOUR choice to PICK which individual branch you want to take. Humans are the only ones who have this freedom. God let's US decide which life we are going to live, and he KNOWS what our decisions are going to be. He KNOWS which branch of the tree we will pick, the good ones, or the bad ones. Since God is all knowing, what I mean he does what he pleases is that for example. A man is begging for mercy for a sin that he has done thousands of times in the past. Now it is God's CHOICE whether to forgive you or not, now isn't it? He is just, if you were good, he WILL place you in heaven or paradise, no question about that. It's his PLEASURE to do so
I personally don’t see it as a tree. I see it as nothing, God hasn’t made anything in front of us. He just knows what we’re going to do.

You being Atheist or Christian has nothing to do with it.
God might be merciful, but I hadn’t given a damn about him until after that incident. And very recently during a trip to England I saw something else which I don’t know if it was God, but it pinned me to a Christian wall.

First of all, the word Trinity is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible,
The word Trinity is not mentioned in the bible. The concept of the Trinity is. We see the Son, the Holy Ghost and the Father bouncing around all the time. They were tagged Trinity later on so that we can address all 3 of them at the same time. In essence, Trinity is a synonym for God. Like saying, You have tigers, lions, jaguars, leopards, caracals, lynx, pumas e.t.c. (all the cats in the world). If we want to address all of them we will either say cats or felines. Same with birds…you have crows, pigeons, finches, sparrows, falcons etc. And they are all tagged birds.

the word BIBLE is not mentioned anywhere in the 'Bible.
And there is a very good reason too. You don’t know what a bible is…well, most people don’t but…you’re one of them.

Jesus (as) actually believed in the oneness of God, and told his followers to not think of him as a God nor the son of God, literally .
He did say he was both. You just need to know the Trinity first which I can see you don’t. And personally I don’t trust the Quran because it contains the biggest lie about Christians and is the reason we are tagged as polytheists.
Quran 4:171
People of the Book, do not go to excess in your religion, and do not say anything about God except the truth: the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was nothing more than a messenger of God, His word, directed to Mary, a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers and do not speak of a 'Trinity'—stop, that is better for you—God is only one God, He is far above having a son, everything in the heavens and earth belongs to Him and He is the best one to trust.
You can see that Muhammad himself thought that Jesus was a literal Son.

Verses 5:72–75
Those who say, 'God is the Messiah, son of Mary,' have defied God. The Messiah himself said, 'Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' If anyone associates others with God, God will forbid him from the Garden, and Hell will be his home. No one will help such evildoers.
Those people who say that God is the third of three are defying [the truth]: there is only One God. If they persist in what they are saying, a painful punishment will afflict those of them who persist. Why do they not turn to God and ask his forgiveness, when God is most forgiving, most merciful? The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger; other messengers had come and gone before him; his mother was a virtuous woman; both ate food. See how clear We make these signs for them; see how deluded they are.
Here we can see the twisting of the Trinity into 3 deities as well as delusion over what Jesus was without knowing who and what Jesus was for the Christians.

Verse 5:116
When God says, 'Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to people, "Take me and my mother as two gods alongside God"?' he will say, 'May You be exalted! I would never say what I had no right to say—if I had said such a thing You would have known it: You know all that is within me, though I do not know what is within You, You alone have full knowledge of things unseen .
Sorry for my language but this is complete bull. Now Mary is dragged into this. The Theotokos (a very honored title of Mary) has absolutely, 100% NOTHING to do with the Trinity.

The Bible itself is a collection of stories, poems, and accounts, and dreams by people who came hundreds of years after Jesus (as) died,
You don’t know what the bible is, nor how it works or which scriptures work how.


This where my church comes in…We hold the original. Now you might say (bit it was translated into Greek) Yes, it was. But the magic of the greek language is that you might need to change a phrase or add a few words. But the EXACT meaning can be delivered. The byzantine bible is in fact older the the Quran, if somebody wanted to translate it to the common language they could do so. But the original was always kept. It was first put together as we have it now by the council of Nicea in 325 AD. And has remained unchanged ever since.
It's immoral for God to have a son, he has all the power, why would he need a son?
Jesus is God. The only reason he is also called God’s son is because the body of Jesus was not created by human actions. Instead it was created in heaven and placed in Mary’s womb. In other words…If you believe in the Virgin birth, then you also believe Jesus (the body) is God’s Son. We are all children of God, but this is the reason this title is reserved for Jesus.

Why would God kill his own son, or his own prophet on the cross? In the BIBLE, it says that anybody who is crucified on the cross is hell-bound. That means Jesus (as) went to hell right? Wrong.

Jesus was 100% human and God at the same time. On the cross Jesus’ human side died, therefore going to hell along with the sin of mankind. His divine side stayed behind, resurected the body 3 days later and returned to heaven where it belonged. What do I mean by “Jesus’ human side died, therefore going to hell along with the sin of mankind.” ? Doesn’t that mean that just believing would automatically grant us entry into heaven? No. Jesus died for us, but we have to live for him. We reflect his life as much as we can here on earth. He spared us from hell. If we want him to “die” for us again…we have to live for him.

Why would God need a human side in the first place? If God is immortal, he can make his human side immortal.
God didn’t need a human side, He just needed something to carry the burden of sin and hell to take our place so that we may be spared.

God CREATED heaven, what do you mean he will 'return' to heaven?
This is where the Trinity comes in. If you don’t know the Trinity you will never know Christianity and how it thinks.

He created these things for US humans. He created FRUITS for our sustenance. He created the sun and the moon, both under the command of God. If Jesus (as) was God, then he would have to keep an eye on every single tiny particle of this UNIVERSE all at one time!
Trinity

Then came Christianity. It was founded by Jesus (as) who reaffirmed the Judaism religion that had become corrupt during his time. Jesus (as) taught to believe in one God and not associate any partners or sons with him. The old Christians were the TRUE Christians, but they weren't called Christians. They were just the TRUE Jews.
Judaism didn’t become corrupt, the laws were the same. The people that were using the laws were corrupt.
Yes, Jesus told us to have one God, and we do.
Exactly, we are Jews. They only reason we had to change our name was because not everybody accepted Jesus. So you can’t have Jews, and Jews. Then you would Jews believing completely different things than the other Jews, and Then doctrines would get mixed up between the Jews, and nobody would know which doctrines are the Jewish and which are the other Jewish. – wow…I got dizzy typing this-

After the True Judaism, or Christianity as we call it today, came Islam, the last phase. And it was established by Muhammad
Personally, I don’t trust Muhammad. I keep finding holes in his story and something doesn’t feel right

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