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OokamiKasumi — The Secret to Proper Paragraphing
Published: 2010-02-01 01:06:06 +0000 UTC; Views: 37783; Favourites: 740; Downloads: 382
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Description Once you know what your characters and doing and saying, how do you get all that down on Paper without ending up with a huge confusing mess?

Putting the Story on Paper.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Everybody knows that when a new speaker speaks they get a new paragraph, right? In other words, you DON'T put two different people talking in the same paragraph. Okay, yeah, so anyone who has written any kind of fiction learns this pretty darned quick, (usually from their readers.)

What nobody seems to get is that the same goes for a new character's ACTIONS. Seriously, when a new character ACTS they're supposed to get their own paragraph -- even if they don't speak!

In short, you paragraph by change in CHARACTER -- not because they speak, but because they ACT. Ahem... Dialogue is an ACTION. In other words, the reason you don't put two different characters' Dialogue in the same paragraph is BECAUSE you don't mix two characters' Actions. Okay?


"Wait a minute, doesn't that cut everything into tiny bits, you know, when you cut all the dialogue away then divide up all those paragraphs?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No because Character A's dialogue is supposed to be IN Character A's paragraph of actions. Character B gets his own paragraph of dialogue AND actions. You divide up a story's paragraphs by individual Character -- not by individual lines of Dialogue OR Actions.

What you definitely don't do, is cut all the dialogue away from everything and mash all the different characters' actions together in one messy paragraph where no one can tell who did what.


"Where the heck did THAT rule come from?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Strunk & White's Element's of Style, the grammar handbook.

To wit…
-- "In dialogue, each speech, even if only a single word, is a paragraph by itself; that is, a new paragraph begins with each change of speaker."

This is often misinterpreted as "Make a new paragraph at every new line of dialogue."

Um... No. The key phrase here is "a new paragraph begins with Each Change of Speaker."

As long as the Speaker is Acting, the Speaker HAS NOT CHANGED. However, every time a new character Acts, you ARE Changing Speakers -- even if they don't talk! Therefore, each new character ACTING gets a New Paragraph, whether or not they have dialogue.

How this works...

WRONG:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised, and Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. < -- Two Characters acting in the same paragraph.>

Becky mumbled, "I wouldn't so much say named, as gave it an identifying word to distinguish it from all the other stuffed cute kitty plushies." < -- this whole line is Abandoned Dialogue.>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

RIGHT:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised. "You named a stuffed animal?"

Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. "I wouldn't so much say named, as gave it an identifying word to distinguish it from all the other stuffed cute kitty plushies."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

What's Missing?
-- 'Becky mumbled'. <-- This is an unnecessary Dialogue tag. Once you link a character's Dialogue to their corresponding Actions, you no longer need the Dialogue tags.

If you really, really want to add that Becky mumbled her words, describe it as an action. Don't TELL us that she mumbled, SHOW us.

Example:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. Her voice dropped to a mumble. "I wouldn't so much say named, as gave an identifying word to distinguish it from all the other stuffed cute kitty plushies."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-----Original Message-----
"What if the next internals and action/dialogue are his, like:"

"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised, and Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. Her reaction was adorable and he couldn't resist needling her some more. "I thought you hated stuffies."

"Then can you lump those actions together?"
-- Thanks in advance -- Jas
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Um... NO.
-- Remember this?

"…A new paragraph begins with Each Change of Speaker."
-- When a new character ACTS they're supposed to get a new paragraph.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised, and <-- Toby's Actions / Becky's Actions --> Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck.

Becky didn't say anything, but she IS acting -- a blush is an action -- therefore Becky gets her OWN paragraph.

Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised.

Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck.


However, this is incorrect too:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised.

Actions go BEFORE Reactions Toby was surprised so he commented: "You named a stuffed animal?" He didn't comment and THEN become surprised.

Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised. "You named a stuffed animal?"


All together now!

Original:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised, and Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. Her reaction was adorable and he couldn't resist needling her some more. "I thought you hated stuffies."

Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised. "You named a stuffed animal?"

Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck.

Her reaction was so adorable, Toby couldn't resist needling her some more. "I thought you hated stuffies?"


-----Original Message-----
"But when you do that, it looks so...choppy on the page. There's ton's of empty white space!"
-- Hates Empty Space
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yes, it looks choppy on the page, but its Far More Important that there is absolutely no doubt in anyone's mind as to who is acting and who is speaking.

Another Example:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Don't help me. I'm fine by myself," she told him, not bothering to be polite. He looked surprised and perhaps a little hurt. She heard another voice.

"Geez, you're pretty full of yourself, aren't you?" She got to her feet and brushed herself off, glancing in the direction of the newcomer. She nearly recoiled in shock. Another handsome guy. He crossed his arms over his chest. "He was just trying to help you." He told her. She readjusted her bag and said.

"I don't recall asking for help."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

By the way, once you separate each of your character's actions into new paragraphs and reconnect each character's dialogue to their actions, you won't need dialogue tags such as "said" because your character's actions are the identifiers for your dialogue.

With actions separated & dialogue attached.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Don't help me. I'm fine by myself." She didn't bother to be polite.

He looked surprised and perhaps a little hurt.

A new voice called out. "Geez, you're pretty full of yourself, aren't you?"

She got to her feet and brushed herself off, glancing in the direction of the newcomer. Another handsome guy. She nearly recoiled in shock.

He crossed his arms over his chest. "He was just trying to help you."

She readjusted her bag. "I don't recall asking for help."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you truly loathe all that white space, then fill it in with more actions, description, and internal narration observations.

-----Original Message-----
But what about when someone is watching someone else, or feeling someone do something to them? -- Concerned about Observation

This seems perfectly fine, right?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He watched her shake her butt.
He felt her skin move against his.  

However, once you take this into account:

"…A new paragraph begins with Each Change of Speaker."
-- When a new character ACTS they're supposed to get a new paragraph.

Not so fine after all. You have two people acting in the same line -- in Both Cases.

The way around this little gem of a problem, is to SHOW the event by character rather than TELL it in one lump.  

You begin by dividing the actions by Character:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He watched her.

She shook her butt and her skin moved against his.

He felt it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seems kind'a…short eh? That's because those lines TOLD you what happened, instead of Showing you what happened, so there are all kinds of details missing. Once you add enough details to paint a whole picture…

Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From his seat at the edge of the stage, he watched her.

Tall, svelte, and in the skimpiest bathing suit he'd ever seen, she moved in close and shook her butt. The round, firm flesh jiggled enticingly against his face.

His cheeks were subjected to the most incredible, though slightly sweaty, facial massage ever.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


KILL the Dialogue Tags. (Seriously.)
-- When you have an action with a line of dialogue, you don't need Dialogue tags, such as "he said" -- at all. You already know through their actions WHO is speaking.

Dialogue tags are only ever needed when you don't have any other way of identifying the speaker.

HOWEVER, if you have no other way of knowing who is speaking than dialogue tags, then you have committed the heinous crime of:

Dialogue in a Vacuum
- Also known as "talking heads syndrome."

A book with nothing but reams of dialogue marked only by dialogue tags means that while people may be talking, there is no PICTURE. The mental movie has stopped and only the sound-track is playing. Compare it to a Radio Show with no sound effects.

I don't know about you, but when I go to read a story, I want to SEE what I'm reading like a movie, not listen to a radio show.

Memorize this:
Readers always interpret what they read the way they want to see it -- unless you SHOW them what you envisioned.

In other words…
What CAN be misunderstood -- WILL be misunderstood.


Leave Nothing to Misinterpretation.
-- Readers will ALWAYS make whatever assumptions come to mind about what they are reading. When a reader realizes that what they thought was going on -- wasn't, they'll get confused, and occasionally pissed off.

Unmarked blocks of dialogue are painfully EASY to get lost in.

I remember reading one whole page of un-tagged action-less dialogue only to find out that I had two of the characters reversed. Did I reread that whole page to figure out what was going on? Hell no! I tossed the book across the room. (In fact, it's still on the floor gathering dust bunnies.)

"But, isn't that's what 'said' and other dialogue tags are for?"

Just for the record...
-- Using dialogue tags is Not against the rules. Dialogue tags are a perfectly viable way to identify who is speaking -- it just makes that part of the story BORING. (I don't know about you, but I won't read something that bores me.)

I choose to write my dialogue without using "said" unless I am actually describing a change in voice, tone, or volume in the same paragraph. And even then, I try to avoid them. I use the speaker's actions to define who is speaking to whom.
  
I use ACTION TAGS.

"What the heck is an Action Tag?"
BODY LANGUAGE

Language is Visual not just a bunch of words. Watch the average conversation between two people. 90% of that conversation isn't in what's spoken, it's in what they are DOING as they are speaking. It's in their Body Language. Body-language cues the reader as to what is going on in a character's head – in ADDITION to dialogue and internal narrative.

Action and body-language tags on dialogue are Not just for decoration.
-- Stories are Mental Movies you play in your imagination. I don't know about you, but I HATE to be interrupted when I'm involved in a good movie. If I have to stop and reread a section just to figure out what the heck is going on, I've been interrupted. One too many interruptions and I'm switching to another story -- with no intention of continuing with something that's just too much work to get through.

Action tags keep the mental Movie rolling and the MEANING of what is being said crystal clear. A small simple action can tell you right away, what's going through the speaker's head.

Don't just SAY it! ~ SHOW IT!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  "I love you too." She rolled her eyes and sighed dramatically. "Oh yes, I truly do love you."
  "I love you too." She dropped her chin and pouted. "Oh yes, I truly do love you."
  "I love you too." She glared straight at him. "Oh yes, I truly do love you."
  "I love you too." She turned away and wiped the tear from her cheek. "Oh yes, I truly do love you."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WHY I loathe the word "said".
- To be perfectly clear, it's not JUST the word 'said', I hate ALL Dialogue Tags inclusively. I utterly refuse to use them.

Why?
- Because they're wasteful. They clutter up dialogue while slowing down actions, and they use up word-count that could be far better used elsewhere.

I don't believe in putting anything in my fiction that isn't useful. If it doesn't add to the character or the plot, it gets eradicated. Dialogue tags are too easily replaced by something that actually adds to the story, such as an action, a facial expression, a spot of description, or a character's opinions.

Just for the record, I write extremely dialogue-heavy fiction. When I find that a dialogue tag is indeed needed in my story to identify who is talking, I see it as a red flag that indicates that all action has come to a screeching halt. Nothing is Happening other than talking; also known as: Talking Heads Syndrome.

When that happens, I find some way to fill that space with something useful to the story such as an action, a facial expression, a spot of description, or a character's opinions -- ANYTHING other than a dialogue tag.

But those are MY feelings on the subject.
-- Your mileage may vary.

Dialogue tags ARE a legitimate form of sentence structure. When there is no other way to identify a speaker, dialogue tags are indeed a viable option.


What about Punctuation for Dialogue?
- Go here:
theeditorsblog.net/2010/12/08/…
Read that.  


Paragraph Aesthetics

-----Original Message-----
"I suppose the issue I have is with the aesthetics of paragraphing. Though text is not comparable to a visual medium such as film, it is still something that we have to view with our eyes."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Actually, text aesthetics -- the way the words appear on the page -- seems to be a HUGE bone of contention.

-----Original Message-----
"...The way I see it, your example suggests that I break my text up into a lot of little paragraphs. Given this understanding, in a scene rich with alternating action, it looks like I'll be left with a lot of one-line paragraphs. ...I'd greatly appreciate it if you clarified this situation. I suppose that is the trouble with having to jot down the basics, you can't expand on the little details of the rule. ^_^
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Paragraph Aesthetics - Illustrated
-- The way a story appears on a standard 9.5 x 11 inch piece of paper is NOT the way to judge whether or not one's paragraphs are too long or too short. A story viewed on a browser page carries even less weight.

Why not?
-- Because Fiction is generally printed on pages HALF the size of a full sheet of paper. What appears to be a lot of short little paragraphs on the "internet page," are NOT so short or so little once you put them on the Printed page.

The standard sizes for printed Fiction are: paperback (4.25 x 6.75 inches), and trade paperback (5.5 x 8.25 inches.) Hard-cover books use the same size page as a Trade. Only coffee-table books possess printed pages anywhere near the size of a standard sheet of paper.

Visual Aids:
ALL examples are 12 pt. Times New Roman font.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Standard Paperback 6.75 x 4.25, 1/2 inch margins:
i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp…

Trade paperback 5.5 x 8.25, 1/2 inch margins:  
i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp…

Standard sheet of paper 8.5" x 11", 1 inch margins:
i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Personally, I could care less what my text looks like on the page. As far as I'm concerned, making the story as clear and easy to read as possible is far more important to me than what the text looks like. If I have done my job well, no one will even notice the words - only the story unfolding in their imaginations.

As for internet reading, I'm completely baffled why anyone would care how it looks on the browser page. All you have to do is narrow the window and the text adjusts.


-----Original Message-----
"Also, I hope you don't mind, but did you come up with the rules yourself, through experience and trial and error, publisher's advice, or is there a handy guide I can employ? Obviously, I quite loyally follow Strunk and White, but I don't think it talks about this subject much. Is there a book that YOU use?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let's start here:
"...did you come up with the rules yourself, through experience and trial and error, publisher's advice...?"

YES - to all of the above, plus editor hounding and long chats with a number of extremely well-established fiction authors. In addition, I've read a crap-load of how-to books. I'm pretty sure I own, and have practically memorized, just about every book "Writer's Digest" has put out.

My writing advice posts are the results of taking all the info I'd crammed into my head and condensing it into small bite-sized, chewable, pieces that are easy to remember and much easier to apply. Rather than waste people's time on theory, I focus on application.

As for recommended reads...
-- Unfortunately, there is no one guide that shows it all. Not One. However, there are two books I can't praise highly enough. As far as I'm concerned, they are VITAL reading for fiction writing.

SCENE & STRUCTURE by Jack. M. Bickham
THE WRITER'S JOURNEY by Christopher Vogler
-- (Google is your friend.)

There are lots of other books I could recommend, but these are the two "Must Haves" if an author really, REALLY wants to write fiction well.

Enjoy!
Related content
Comments: 337

Jedi-Qui-Gon In reply to ??? [2013-08-14 04:06:47 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for clearing up the character thoughts thing for me. And about telepathic communication, I will do that when it happens.

 

And about not using the word Said. I did that in a one-shot story, and someone who read it got a bit confused. It appears I have yet to master it. I was told that even the best of stories have used the word “said” or some variation of it from time to time. It looks like it will take a bit to master the way of doing without that word completely.

 

And about the paragraph example and your rewrite of it, it sounds a lot better.

 

And your story, I will take a look at it.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

OokamiKasumi In reply to Jedi-Qui-Gon [2013-08-14 04:41:51 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for clearing up the character thoughts thing for me.It was pretty clear to me that you were already on the right track.

...about not using the word Said. ... It looks like it will take a bit to master the way of doing without that word completely. Time and practice will fix that for you. I swear it.

...about the paragraph example and your rewrite of it, it sounds a lot better.
All I did was divide it by Character.
 -- Even though the ninja invoked the trees, once the trees acted on their own they needed to be treated like a character, so they got their own paragraph. The same with 'the enemies'.

I hope you like my story.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Jedi-Qui-Gon In reply to OokamiKasumi [2013-08-15 19:04:21 +0000 UTC]

True, time and practice always helps, I imagine everyone has used the word “said” a lot in their first stories.

 

And about dividing paragraphs by character, that means every time a character acts, or something acts by itself, it gets a paragraph? Just want to be sure I understand it right.

 

I read a bit of the story, it is good so far. I will read it and leave a comment there.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

OokamiKasumi In reply to Jedi-Qui-Gon [2013-08-16 02:41:43 +0000 UTC]

And about dividing paragraphs by character, that means every time a
character acts, or something acts by itself, it gets a paragraph? Just
want to be sure I understand it right. Correct.
 -- Also, if too many of your paragraphs come out too short, you're missing Description.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Jedi-Qui-Gon In reply to OokamiKasumi [2013-08-16 03:16:37 +0000 UTC]

Thanks.

 

I will read the descriptions page you made when I get to it.

 

And I am wondering about the head hopping thing. How can you have a conversation with two characters such as when the hero, the main character, finally finds the bad guy. And the bad guy says to the hero to join his side or else. And the hero refuses, and kicks his butt? I was just unsure of how to do a conversation without head hopping. I will eventually read the Pesky POV page but just wanted to know some of the basics.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

OokamiKasumi In reply to Jedi-Qui-Gon [2013-12-02 10:02:45 +0000 UTC]

I was just unsure of how to do a conversation without head hopping.
Simple: Only use One Point of View for the whole scene. Pick one character and write the entire scene from their 'opinionated' point of view. If they don't see it, or feel it, it doesn't get mentioned.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Fragthewinterbrew In reply to ??? [2013-04-04 01:33:52 +0000 UTC]

Thank you so freaking much! This is an amazing guide, and from seeing the countless other guides you have, I'm gonna to be reading quite a bit of them. I truly want to improve as a writer. I'm just awestruck at how little of this I knew. Twelve years of English classes clearly hasn't done much for me lol. I am incredibly pleased that I found this, thank you so much.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

OokamiKasumi In reply to Fragthewinterbrew [2013-05-30 06:40:13 +0000 UTC]

Sadly, they teach Business writing (and fancy names for sentence parts,) in school -- even in college. They don't teach Fiction writing which is done a completely different way.

I'm glad I could help.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

wingedbooks [2013-03-16 04:23:38 +0000 UTC]

I've been spending the evening reading through your various tutorials and I must add another thank you to the group. These are all extremely helpful. Before I could tell that my writing was bland and poorly executed but now I know why and how to fix it. Thanks a bunch!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

OokamiKasumi In reply to wingedbooks [2013-05-30 06:38:32 +0000 UTC]

You're very welcome.
-- Once you get used to writing this way, you'll find that it's not only easier, it's Faster!

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

OnceUponANight23 [2013-03-15 08:15:23 +0000 UTC]

I'm so glad I found your tutorials, they've helped me a lot with my story!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

OokamiKasumi In reply to OnceUponANight23 [2013-05-30 06:37:48 +0000 UTC]

Excellent!
-- I'm glad I could be of assistance.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

chill13 [2013-03-12 19:13:25 +0000 UTC]

This is very helpful. And I appriciate your bluntness and examples. I'll have to alter the way I do things a bit. Because I generally keep it in the same paragraph as long as it's a character's viewpoint. Like I would have kept Toby's comment and Becky's blushing in the same paragraph because he's seeing her action and reacting to it himself.

I will definately remember all this advice and put it to good use. Thank you very much!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

OokamiKasumi In reply to chill13 [2013-05-30 06:37:17 +0000 UTC]

My pleasure!
-- Believe it or not, writing this way is actually Easier, once you get used to it.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

meadofpoetry In reply to ??? [2013-03-02 15:56:40 +0000 UTC]

Oh. Mgod. I loved every second of this. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! Honestly, this information is priceless, and I love that it's freely available. I'm of the opinion that all education should be freely given, that knowledge should not have a price tag. Who can say what an idea is worth? And I love how informal and casual it's shared. Anyway, it's beautiful. Thank you.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

OokamiKasumi In reply to meadofpoetry [2013-05-30 06:36:06 +0000 UTC]

My pleasure!
-- I hope it proves helpful to your writing.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

LL-c In reply to ??? [2013-01-26 01:11:18 +0000 UTC]

"Unmarked blocks of dialogue are painfully EASY to get lost in." Hahaha ever read Cormac McCarthy? I had to reread so many chapters of No Country for Old men because of this.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

OokamiKasumi In reply to LL-c [2013-02-18 11:19:48 +0000 UTC]

You're scaring me.
-- I will never, ever read that book. Ever.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

Rayame In reply to ??? [2013-01-18 17:35:15 +0000 UTC]

Your advice is invaluable! Really! This helped so much.
I only now found some time to look at it but it'd have spared me so many "he said she said"s if I'd only looked at it earlier I felt weird making those anyway.
Thanks so much!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

OokamiKasumi In reply to Rayame [2013-02-18 11:20:12 +0000 UTC]

My pleasure. I'm glad you found the essay useful.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

LovesLostWords In reply to ??? [2013-01-02 17:38:47 +0000 UTC]

What do we do if a character is holding another, or stroking them and the first character feels it. Do we put them in seperate paragraphs as well? just curious, I'm new to all this really.

👍: 0 ⏩: 2

OokamiKasumi In reply to LovesLostWords [2013-02-18 11:20:53 +0000 UTC]

Actually, I do cover that. I thought it was in this tutorial, but it might be in my Sentence Structure tutorial.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

LovesLostWords In reply to OokamiKasumi [2013-02-19 14:30:39 +0000 UTC]

Thank you, I have a long way to go but these are very helpful.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

LL-c In reply to LovesLostWords [2013-01-26 01:47:23 +0000 UTC]

judging by what was said in the tutorial, there is no or next to no exceptions for the separation of actions rule. I'm guessing that what you said would go something like this:

Sam stroked Marie's hair affectionately, combing the cool blonde stands like fingertips brushing water.

Marie rested her forehead against Sam's shoulder and sighed, smiling, as she felt his gentle touch.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

LovesLostWords In reply to LL-c [2013-01-26 11:27:09 +0000 UTC]

thank you hopefully I won't fall back into old habits.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

PrincessCallyie In reply to ??? [2012-12-04 06:06:43 +0000 UTC]

I usually use 'said' when there's more than two people holding a conversation or when a new person enters the scene and interrupts a conversation between two people. Am I using the right approach when it comes to this?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

OokamiKasumi In reply to PrincessCallyie [2013-02-18 11:21:26 +0000 UTC]

I don't use 'said' at all. Seriously. I use body language instead.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

AsjJohnson [2012-12-03 02:28:26 +0000 UTC]

(sorry for the typing-as-I-read thing below. After I got so far, I didn't think I'd be able to remember everything unless I started writing stuff)

This might be useful to me. I knew to put dialogue in separate paragraphs, and sometimes to make knew paragraphs without dialogue (kind of a vague rule of 'if it sounds important enough'), but saying about someone else doing something making a new paragraph makes it more obvious about when to start a new paragraph. That, and putting actions and then reactions, like the 'he said it because, and thus after, he was surprised' thing might help me with when to put a tag first (since I'd been adjusting some lines based on 'hm... it's not obvious how he said this until they get to the end and read the tag, so maybe I should put the tag first', while having a action and reaction thing would probably make it more obvious) Though... did she say, "Don't help me. I'm fine by myself," before or after she didn't bother to be polite? Because, I don't really understand how that one would work. She decided not to be polite before saying that, and I would think it means she wasn't being polite within her words. But then she's not not being polite after she finishes saying that, right? I donno, I think I'm confusing myself.
Hmm... there is something I've ran into in what I've written recently. What's the proper way to handle background dialogue or actions? I mean like, there's this paragraph about this character, right? But while that character is doing something, this other character says or does something. But, if I make it one paragraph instead of three, I thought it'd make it obvious that the other character's action isn't important or that the first character isn't stopping to see how the second character is reacting.
Because I have this:“We’ll find out tomorrow, Xerxes,” Mozenrath said. His smirk darkened as he added, “And so will our victims.” Beside him, the eel repeated, ‘Victims find out,’ with a laugh. “It won’t be long now... The Seven deserts will be mi-”Where Mozenrath is in his own little world there and not paying attention to his talking eel pet.
And this:He took his eyes off the woman long enough to find a coin pouch. He started to take some coins out of it, when he heard her say, ‘The pouch will be enough.’ Mozenrath stared blankly as he let the coins fall back into the pouch.Where it's supposed to be about Mozenrath and what he's doing, but it's the sneaky woman's words that cause him to do one of the actions.
So, what's the proper way of saying those two things without changing the meanings?

Ack. I get to "But what about when someone is watching someone else, or feeling someone do something to them?" and think, 'oh, this might help!' and think, 'Yes, "He felt her skin move against his" sounds nice. Maybe I could use something like that for the two things I mentioned above (which, I think I already did for the second one)' and then... you say it still doesn't work. v_v So... two people acting in one line = bad.
Hmm... what about 'he saw her do something'? Because saying he's watching her and saying he saw something can be quite different. watching would mean he's purposely looking at her, while seeing something can mean he just happened to look up at the right time or saw it from the corner of his eye or something.
The action tag thing sounds good. ...and that makes more sense than trying to both use 'he said' as well as 'he did this'... I'm bound to re-read everything I've written in the past few months (which isn't really all that much) after I finish reading this, and see how many things might make more sense another way.
...And I've finished reading it now.

Would this be a more correct way to write paragraph 1 I'd showed earlier?“We’ll find out tomorrow, Xerxes.” Mozenrath’s smirk darkened as he added, “And so will our victims.”
“Victims find out.” The eel laughed.
Mozenrath hardly heard the animal. “It won’t be long now... The Seven Deserts will be mi-”For some reason, that top line, worded that way, resists me a bit. Like I’m not sure if Mozenrath said it or if someone else said it and Mozenrath is just doing the action afterward - which doesn’t really make sense. I also wonder if I shouldn’t have said ‘his smirk darkened’ when I hadn’t said he smirked in the first place. So then people might think, 'what smirk? when was that?' Though, if I say ‘Mozenrath smirked’ before the dialogue, then it seems redundant... Also, I suppose the best way of showing that Mozenrath isn’t paying much attention to Xerxes is to just tell it.

Now, the second one quite confuses me... Maybe I can say she interrupted him before I change the paragraph? Or would that still have her action mixed with his?He took his eyes off the woman long enough to find a coin pouch. He started to take some coins out of it, when her voice interrupted him.
“The pouch will be enough.”
Mozenrath stared blankly as he let the coins fall back into the pouch.
Eeh. >_< Is the actions on separate paragraphs thing really a rule, or is it more like a friendly suggestion...? Because I think I'd have to change quite a few things I'd written if I do that. "He rushed behind the long curtains, and focused on taking silent breaths as he heard the door open." would have the door opening in a new paragraph, right? :/ Though, I think I meant to say that he went behind the curtains, heard the door opening, and tried to stay quiet before it finished opening - which I'm not sure how to say in separate paragraphs. And "He held his breath as she passed close to his hiding place." would also be two paragraphs (though, her passing close to his hiding place would have him react by holding his breath, but then, he wouldn't hold his breath after she passed him, so...). What about "He looked up, and noticed she was talking to..."? She isn't doing anything new, he just happened to notice something she was already in the middle of. So what does that mean? Is it still considered an action? If so, how do I say he noticed it and how do I say it's been happening before he noticed it? And what about this? "Neither of them seemed particularly worried that he was in the room, and he found himself silently assessing them. The princess looked distressed, her hands clasped in front of her and a worried frown on her face. However, she was still attractive - if he were interested in pampered princesses." Would that really be broken up into separate paragraphs? It's supposed to be his thoughts (in a third person first person ish bleeding way), so it seems wrong to break it up. Maybe it's because it's a list of things he's assessing. Would it make sense to break up a list of things he's thinking about? Hmm... that also leads me to wonder, within a dialogue tag, do you still put different people's actions on different paragraphs?
I feel a little silly for talking about something as simple as fanfiction, but even though I can't seem to come up with a good original idea, I'd like to get better at writing...
And also, you do say whatever you say can be ignored, but these things sound like they make sense, so I want to understand it. (like with passive sentences - awhile ago, I looked up about them, and after reading about them, I decided to mostly ignore the passive sentences I write, because there's a reason I write passive sentences when I do.)

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OokamiKasumi In reply to AsjJohnson [2012-12-04 03:58:11 +0000 UTC]

Eeh. >_< Is the actions on separate paragraphs thing really a rule, or is it more like a friendly suggestion...?

It's actually a Rule, but the only people who know it --and enforce it-- are the 'better' professional editors. In other words, it's something an author learns AFTER they've been accepted by a publisher. The stupid thing is, it's expected that an author already knows this, even though it isn't taught anywhere; not in school, not even in college. It's like, authors are supposed to figure it out for themselves BEFORE they get published.

You wouldn't believe how much rewriting I had to do on my manuscripts when I was first taught this. The good news is, it's actually easier, and faster, to write this way.

Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“We’ll find out tomorrow, Xerxes.” Mozenrath's smirk darkened. “And so will our victims.”

Beside him, the eel repeated with a laugh, "Victims find out..."

“It won’t be long now... The Seven deserts will be mi-”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He took his eyes off the woman long enough to find a coin pouch to take some coins out of it.

She smiled. ‘The pouch will be enough.’

Mozenrath stared blankly and let the coins fall back into the pouch.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If your paragraphs are coming up too short, Add More Description.

"He rushed behind the long curtains, and focused on taking silent breaths as he heard the door open."

Would have the door opening in a new paragraph, right? :/

Correct.
~~~~~~~~~~
He rushed behind the long curtains, and focused on taking silent breaths.

The door clicked open.


And "He held his breath as she passed close to his hiding place."

Would also be two paragraphs?

Correct.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
She passed close to his hiding place.

He held his breath.


What about:
-- "He looked up, and noticed she was talking to..."?

She isn't doing anything new, he just happened to notice something she was already in the middle of. So what does that mean? Is it still considered an action?

YES.
~~~~~~~~~~
He looked up.

She was talking to...

And what about this?

Neither of them seemed particularly worried that he was in the room, and he found himself silently assessing them. The princess looked distressed, her hands clasped in front of her and a worried frown on her face. However, she was still attractive - if he were interested in pampered princesses.

Would that really be broken up into separate paragraphs?

YES.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Neither of them seemed particularly worried that he was in the room.

He found himself silently assessing them.

The princess looked distressed, her hands clasped in front of her and a worried frown on her face.

Despite her appearance, he found her attractive -- if he were interested in pampered princesses.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hmm... that also leads me to wonder, within a dialogue tag, do you still put different people's actions on different paragraphs?

I don't use dialogue tags. Seriously. Read my posted fiction if you don't believe me. --> RAVEN: [link]

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AsjJohnson In reply to OokamiKasumi [2012-12-04 05:06:55 +0000 UTC]

Oh, I think I meant "within dialogue" instead of "within a dialogue tag" and wrote the wrong thing by accident. I did see you mention not using dialogue tags, and I guess I accidentally typed that.
Like if someone says, "I was minding my own business, when she did this, and he did that." (or at least, if it were "I was minding my own business. She did this. He did that." since I would think one sentence would need to be in one paragraph and couldn't be changed to multiple sentences if it's a quote anyhow.)

Hmm... so, even if who does what is clear, it really, really should still be different paragraphs? All the pretty 'he saw/noticed/watched' sentences couldn't be there then. ): Ooooh wait. new subjects doing actions... '“Oh, I’m sure they are,” he said, smirking at the hunched shopkeeper. A pouch of money was pulled from an inner pocket of his cape and tossed to her.' - Since I made the pouch of money the subject of that sentence, does that mean it gets it's own paragraph, too? Or... is it in the same paragraph because he's the one doing the action on the pouch of money?

It feels hard to follow the train of thought when the assessing paragraph(s) is broken up that way... though it may just be from me being used to reading it the other way...
Thanks for responding to my comments, by the way. ^_^

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OokamiKasumi In reply to AsjJohnson [2013-02-18 11:31:00 +0000 UTC]

...Since I made the pouch of money the subject of that sentence, does that mean it gets it's own paragraph, too? Or... is it in the same paragraph because he's the one doing the action on the pouch of money?

He's the one doing the acting, the pouch isn't acting on it's own. The door, in the earlier example, was acting on its own. See the difference?

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Owlflight29 In reply to ??? [2012-11-01 19:25:12 +0000 UTC]

Does this work?

"Hawkkit!" a silver she-cat jumped to her paws. Running over to the little wounded kit waddling through the cave.

The kit shifted her gaze above and smiled. As she saw her mom she started waddling faster, "momma!!!"

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OokamiKasumi In reply to Owlflight29 [2012-11-04 15:19:02 +0000 UTC]

Not at all. You have two character's acting in Both lines.

Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A little kit waddled through the cave.

The silver she-cat leaped to her paws. "Hawkkit!" She rushed toward the kitten.

Looking up, the kit abruptly smiled and waddled faster, "Momma!"

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Owlflight29 In reply to OokamiKasumi [2012-11-04 18:41:54 +0000 UTC]

:3 thank you

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Owlflight29 [2012-11-01 19:19:27 +0000 UTC]

i love this, i need to go back to writing!!!

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OokamiKasumi In reply to Owlflight29 [2012-11-04 15:12:58 +0000 UTC]

I'm glad you liked it.

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Eszies-Eszie [2012-08-07 22:33:40 +0000 UTC]

Learned so much, finally the proper explaination when none of my readers wanted to give it to me!

Thank you so much for this. I'm going to use it for my upcoming stories and also for my old ones when I finally get the time to rewrite them

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OokamiKasumi In reply to Eszies-Eszie [2012-08-20 02:14:11 +0000 UTC]

Your readers probably didn't know it to give it to you. It's not taught in school -- not even in college.

Not too many people know this stuff -- including more than a few published authors. I was lucky enough to get some extremely knowledgeable (and ferocious) editors.

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ashleymec7 In reply to ??? [2012-08-05 21:01:55 +0000 UTC]

This is amazingly written and I'm grateful for it, but I have a question. 'A new paragraph begins with the change of each speaker.' That means that anytime someone speaks or acts in place of dialogue, a new paragraph should start, right? It's not that anytime someone new acts the paragraph changes, like if a character is looking for his friend or something, it would be like 'He turned the corner and saw Bob breathing heavily against the wall.' It's only if their actions connect to, or replace their dialogue. Yes? No?

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OokamiKasumi In reply to ashleymec7 [2012-08-20 02:11:43 +0000 UTC]

I'm glad you like my tutorial!

However, YES, it's Anytime someone new acts the paragraph changes.

This sentence has 2 characters operating in the same line.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He turned the corner and saw Bob breathing heavily against the wall.

I would write it this way:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He turned the corner.

Leaning against the wall directly ahead, Bob was breathing heavily.

To make those sentences bigger, add more Description.

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Zireael07 In reply to ??? [2012-07-18 14:37:29 +0000 UTC]

Even though I've been writing for years, I can't kill the 'talking heads syndrome'... any tips?

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OokamiKasumi In reply to Zireael07 [2012-07-29 16:24:16 +0000 UTC]

Yes: add Description, add Actions, add Body-Language. That should fill up those sentences and act as markers for who is saying what.

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Jo-san In reply to ??? [2012-07-11 12:30:29 +0000 UTC]

This is wonderfully written! Thank you so much for sharing!

I too despise tagging dialogue with "said", and staying away from tags in general makes perfect sense to me. I'll make sure to stay away from those in the future.

Also I really liked what you taught about paragraphing. I had no idea character actions should be separate in their own paragraphs (it always made perfect sense in play-by-post roleplaying, but not when writing my own stories). I got a little scared about how I was going to pull this off, but then you mentioned:

"Paragraph Aesthetics - Illustrated
-- The way a story appears on a standard 9.5 x 11 inch piece of paper is NOT the way to judge whether or not one's paragraphs are too long or too short. A story viewed on a browser page carries even less weight.

Why not?
-- Because Fiction is generally printed on pages HALF the size of a full sheet of paper. What appears to be a lot of short little paragraphs on the "internet page," are NOT so short or so little once you put them on the Printed page."

And I really needed to hear that. So thanks a bunch!
I need to go back and re-read my children's book again.

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OokamiKasumi In reply to Jo-san [2012-07-29 16:23:01 +0000 UTC]

I'm thrilled I could help with your writing confidence.

As for paragraphing, remember to CONNECT the Dialogue to that character's Actions -- don't leave your dialogue dangling between the paragraphs!

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Jo-san In reply to OokamiKasumi [2012-07-30 10:11:44 +0000 UTC]

Makes sense. Thanks for the pointer.

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Jo-san In reply to Jo-san [2012-07-11 13:37:46 +0000 UTC]

Oh, and another thing that boggles my mind; how do you paragraph when you introduce the story, setting a scene or such? You're describing the weather, the location, the people ... how do I prevent it from looking messy?
I tend to 'paragraph' by hitting enter once, but the way you paragraph is by clearly separating the texts with a double enter. So I guess I am doing it wrong? Do you ever 'single-enter', and when and why?

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TwistedAlyx [2012-07-08 08:09:06 +0000 UTC]

OMG why didn't anyone ever tell me this before? I'm going to go through everything and edit the living hell out of my paragraphs.

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OokamiKasumi In reply to TwistedAlyx [2012-07-29 16:20:10 +0000 UTC]

NO ONE tells anyone about this -- until you get to a Good editor. That's where I learned it, from my publishing editors. It's one of the big secrets authors don't share.

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Swiss-Dilettante [2012-05-14 01:13:49 +0000 UTC]

Hello, Miss.

I hope this isn't too great an imposition, but I have a question. From an intimate (or limited?) Point of View, would one always have to create a new paragraph for the POV character's thoughts it it would be written during another character's paragraph?

I believe I have a couple examples. Here:

She was about to go to him when the knock came at the
door, loud and unexpected. Ned turned, frowning. “What is it?”

Ned frowned. He had little patience for this sort of thing,
Catelyn knew. “A lens,” he said. “What has that to do with me?”

-- These are both from George R. R. Martin's first novel of the series, "A Song of Ice and Fire."

Because she did not act, does that mean that these are correct, fallowing the rules you have generously provided?

Again, I hope that this isn't too great an imposition. I would understand if you did not reply, though I would be greatly appreciative if you did.

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OokamiKasumi In reply to Swiss-Dilettante [2012-06-11 07:45:26 +0000 UTC]

This is incorrect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
She was about to go to him when the knock came at the
door, loud and unexpected. Ned turned, frowning. “What is it?”

Ned frowned. He had little patience for this sort of thing, Catelyn knew. “A lens,” he said. “What has that to do with me?”


I would have written it this way:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
She turned to go to him.

A knock came at the door, loud and unexpected.

Ned turned, frowning. “What is it?” He had little patience for this sort of thing, Catelyn knew. “A lens? What has that to do with me?”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just because something is Published doesn't make it right. Case in point: Twilight.

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