KasaiViperPit In reply to Ember-star [2017-06-05 15:21:15 +0000 UTC]

can I just?? input my own opinion real quick??
this was how I first learned how to draw; tracing and referencing
I still reference other artists but I can see, just like I did, she's slowly changing into her own style
so please these people in the comments really need to chill a bit 👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Ember-star In reply to KasaiViperPit [2017-06-05 19:25:04 +0000 UTC]

this is a very very old comment thread!!! i imagine willowraye has changed by now?

and well, your art is absolutley wonderful and im glad your method artistic growth worked for you, i need to tell you tracing and referencing do NOT go hand and hand. referencing is an amazing tool. referencing involves looking at another artist or real lifes pictures pose, and looking at how it was drawn and colored and how the anatomy is. trying to use that reference to make your style better is a great and positive thing!! 

when it comes to tracing, things are different. tracing is like laying a piece of paper over an image and drawing on top of it. thats cool if you want to do it, but it severly can harm your artistic process because the lines are already there and drawn, so your just copying over what already exists instead of trying to draw it in your own way, look at how it was done, and learn from it. there are actually cases i've seen where it can even hinder an artist because the thing they are tracing doesnt have very accurate anatomy even if it looks good.

the other thing is, people who trace over other peoples drawings and post them can really offend the artist and can actually cause people to be very very upset, but if you reference and learn and have a style off of that its usually really great and you get to grow artistically!
(i dont agree with people being angry at others for "style copying" when in reality they havent traced a single thing or stolen a design and it just looks simaler. that makes no sense to me and only hurts the artist.)

also please note: i made those comments a while ago  and i might have sound realy rude or insulting back then or contradicted myself here, i didnt know as much about art until very recently, im going to go check willowraye and what i said but. dont be surprised if i maybe have differeing opinions explained here then what i posted up there.

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KasaiViperPit In reply to Ember-star [2017-06-05 20:03:05 +0000 UTC]

yeah lol I had to edit my comment because I sounded like a jerk?? I didn't know how to say what I wanted, bad with words
it's okay!!!
thank you!
True, when I traced for practice I never uploaded it
you're totally correct though <3 tracing isn't cool if you don't mention the original artist at least, it does help with building a new style though

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Ember-star In reply to KasaiViperPit [2017-06-06 22:00:07 +0000 UTC]

im glad we were able to agree on this!! thank you for being so nice!! :3c
i hope you have a great day!!

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KasaiViperPit In reply to Ember-star [2017-06-07 05:56:49 +0000 UTC]

I try not to argue with people, I have really bad anger issues LOL
thank you, too! <3
you too!!! : D

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Nightbird1648 In reply to Ember-star [2016-09-13 23:29:08 +0000 UTC]

I'm sorry about getting into this conversation/argument, and I won't take any sides for now. But a lot of other people here on DeviantArt (such as @/Ravenstar447, and a lot more people who I'm not going to bother to list) also heavily reference @/Finchwing's art, and some other people (such as @/Calicostar456) even admit that they traced Finchwing's art (Proof can be seen in the comments of calicostar456.deviantart.com/a… ). However, you do have a point about @/Willowraye developing her own art style, and I think she might've mentioned in the description of one of her drawings that she's going to change her art style(?). Again, I'm not taking any sides for now, as @/Willowraye is one of my first internet friends, and I also agree that people should develop their own art styles.

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Ember-star In reply to Nightbird1648 [2016-09-16 00:19:08 +0000 UTC]

yes. a lot of people do it. does that make it good? does that make it right?
No.

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Nightbird1648 In reply to Ember-star [2016-09-16 09:17:02 +0000 UTC]

Yes, I understand that. It's just that I find it a little unfair that she was reported three or more times, while other people weren't reported at all. Also, I think you were being a little too harsh in your comment, as I know that she didn't trace any of the art in her gallery.

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Ember-star In reply to Nightbird1648 [2016-09-16 21:13:01 +0000 UTC]

how is that unfair..??? they are all tracers and art thefts??
well yeah but its so heavily referenced i can just look at her art and in my head match the copied drawing with finchwings original. like its that simaler
dont defend art theft/copy. just dont

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Nightbird1648 In reply to Ember-star [2016-09-16 23:29:33 +0000 UTC]

It's unfair because they haven't been reported, not even once. I'm not saying that they're all tracers and art thefts, so please don't take it the wrong way. But seriously... she's been reported three or more times already, and I don't think she deserves that... hate. (Sorry if I used the wrong word, English isn't my first language.)
Well, has it occurred to you, that a lot of artists heavily reference stuff? I mean, people who draw realistically almost always have a reference image...
I'm not defending art theft, as she did not directly steal any of Finchwing's drawings. And she didn't trace them either, if that's what you're going to say next. I am just as against art theft/tracing/etc. as you are.

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Scotchmint In reply to Nightbird1648 [2016-09-23 22:45:16 +0000 UTC]

I actually showed finchwing this artist and finchwing was bothered but could not do anything. 
Also, that calico drawing you showed is: 
1. Credited 
2. Old
It doesn't make it right, but it does go against some of the reasons you're providing. Willow does not credit finches art. 
Willow did downright copy finchwing's art and did not credit it, and the reason she provided in one of the comments was "im lazy" 
I showed finchwing herself that also, and finch was iffy about all of this, but like I said, powerless. 

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Nightbird1648 In reply to Scotchmint [2016-09-23 23:22:28 +0000 UTC]

Oh, ok. I'm kind of bothered by how many people steal/borrow Finchwing's art style, now that I think about it...
In one of her drawings, which is very old, she credited Finchwing (I think, at least...).

I didn't realize that she provided that as one of her reasons to copying Finchwing's art style... ;o;
I'm sorry I didn't look into this more before I commented! I'll try to reason with her to change her art style into her own. qwq

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Scotchmint In reply to Nightbird1648 [2016-09-23 23:29:23 +0000 UTC]

I think that she should try new things with her style. im not necessarily against her but just clearing things up!

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Nightbird1648 In reply to Scotchmint [2016-09-23 23:30:41 +0000 UTC]

Okay! nwn
I think she once said that she was going to change her style, but I might've misread it qwq"

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Scotchmint In reply to Nightbird1648 [2016-09-23 23:31:57 +0000 UTC]

Nah it's okay!

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Nightbird1648 In reply to Scotchmint [2016-09-24 00:34:56 +0000 UTC]

Okay! nwn"

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Ember-star In reply to Nightbird1648 [2016-09-19 23:01:57 +0000 UTC]

she deserves to be reported if she copies drawings. and no, if your against tracing/copying/art theft you wouldnt be defending this person

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Nightbird1648 In reply to Ember-star [2016-09-23 23:19:45 +0000 UTC]

I guess I agree with that...
Okay. When she gets back on or something, I'll try to reason with her so she could change her art style.

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Kinshio In reply to Ember-star [2016-09-08 16:58:40 +0000 UTC]

Okay don't you think that was a bit too harsh? Tracing and referencing is completely different.
People start from somewhere and trust me, people do take inspiration from other artist, theres no need for this.

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Ember-star In reply to Kinshio [2016-09-08 23:36:23 +0000 UTC]

yeah but this is more then just "inspiration" this is heavily referencing and tracing and basically stealing finch's art and style lol
why you are defending someone who is basically an art theft i dont know...but dont do it =/

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Kinshio In reply to Ember-star [2016-09-08 23:49:16 +0000 UTC]

you yourself shouldn't harass someone just because their style is similar to someone else, as i said, people start from somewhere, we all can agree on that, don't tell me what to defend or not because what you said was really rude.not only that thats' just horrible to say that to someone, You don't want people coming up to you and say all these stuff to you do you? no you would not, Art theft is not even close on whats she's doing, She will drift on and soon create their OWN style.
Art theft- STOLEN ART
and do you see their art is stolen? no it is not, Its not even tracing, as far as i remember, tracing is when you ACTUALLY TRACE the persons art and call it your own, this person draws whatever with a style that they are trying to compose and make their own one and not someone elses, and that's okay, its okay to be inspired and its OKAY to reference a style,All artists done that at some point,as long as they are not actually stealing the persons art, than that is consider art theft and needs to be taken consiquences.Other than that, you should mind your own business and let this person be, They will soon drift off and create something. Please re consider all of this, thank you.

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Scotchmint In reply to Kinshio [2016-09-09 00:06:16 +0000 UTC]

Not on any sides here, but she IS referencing very closely to Finchwing's style and selling it, and I talked to Finchwing herself and she is fairly uncomfortable with it. It was a bit harsh though, and we all start somewhere, but artists don't usually post when they referenced very closely.

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Ember-star In reply to Kinshio [2016-09-09 00:02:48 +0000 UTC]

woah jeez man first of all you dont have to go all telling me what to do, if i want to "harass" an artist then sure as heck i can because hey im barely even harrassing hwer?? and i think this artist is probably harassing finch a lot more.
like im sorry if i said something rude...but...i think she deserves kind of a slap in the face. what she is doing is wrong. 
and just because you think she'll drift and make her own style, doesnt mean that art traciing/copying is right and correct. like..news flash buddy, its infringing and wrong.
given she copies finches art and sells it for money for her to receive..id call it some sort of theft.
its okay to refrence a style, but this goes over the line. shes copying a style heavily and posting it online. key word, posting it online. she can copy as much as she wants for personal use, yeah, but posting it online and selling it is downright terrible to finch.

lol i dont know if your rant is gonna make me reconsider because im pretty set in my ways?? dont heavily refrence someones art and sell it and post it online and claim someones hard work and style as your own?? thank you?????

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ThatOctoberCat In reply to Ember-star [2016-11-06 03:35:15 +0000 UTC]

I know this is probably an old comment, and no one will most likely reply to it; But I have one small question for you. If you're saying WillowRaye is copying/stealing Finchwing's Art Style/Art then think about this. IF you had found WillowRaye BEFORE you found Finchwing, you probably wouldn't think that she is copying that person. Finch has even posted on her twitter saying that Young Artists usually reference from a style they like and continue to develop their own. A majority of the time, people develop their art styles by taking what they like from different people's art styles and combine them together into their OWN. So I do believe she is quite fine. She didn't even claim the style as her own, or sell her art FOR REAL MONEY, and I know a lot of people who have a similar style to finch or have certain things with their style that are the same as Finch's.

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Ember-star In reply to ThatOctoberCat [2016-11-07 00:39:28 +0000 UTC]

..thats correct. if i had found willowraye before finchwing, no, i would have no evidence to say she was copying at all. then i'd find finchwing and be appauled that i even stopped to look at an artist that had deliberatly copied or traced off of anothers art. thats the answer to your question.

and yeah, thats something finch has tweeted, sure. but, finch has also tweeted plenty of things in regard to her hate for copiers and theft. take a look at this twitter.com/Finchwing/status/7… shes sarcastically speaking, but it comes down to her saying that she hates when people defend stealing/copying or trying to get away with steaking/copying. and she also condenms something willowraye has done, which is doing art for others as gifts and finding art that looks like the oc( in willows case, finchwings art) and just tracing off of it twitter.com/Finchwing/status/7… theres these "gifts" in her gallery that are literally just recolored, traced, copied whatever of finchwings art.
also, if you say that willow doesnt do this for money, i suggest you take a look in her gallery for those two headshots she copied of finchwing that she did for real money commissions. =/
this isnt her own style, its not freehand, its copied. some are even traced.

dont defend art thefts
dont defend people who copy work
and dont comment on posts so old that they dont even need another word said on them.

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Scotchmint In reply to Ember-star [2016-09-07 21:30:34 +0000 UTC]

I informed finchwing about this and she's (finch) helpless sadly 

she told me herself she isnt necessarily tracing but very closely referencing and I agree hh

but it is very similar, and she is probably younger than she states because at 16 you should know about this but I have no hate against anyone. She'll learn with her styles and drift off into a more unique one 

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Ember-star In reply to Scotchmint [2016-09-07 21:47:32 +0000 UTC]

i know its just frustrating to see people referencing off others work and posting it because they didnt think it up from their head, therefore their not even doing half the effort that finch does sigh

and yeah, a LOT of people lie about there age on DA. a whole lot- its actually kind of annoying?? sorry im sensitive to situations like this fhvhfegf

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Scotchmint In reply to Ember-star [2016-09-07 21:54:06 +0000 UTC]

yea I totally agree dude. I just don't want her to sell art in another style thats much cheaper cause its ripping off finch

I lied about my age and I felt terrible but they could easily do the same so hh

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Ember-star In reply to Scotchmint [2016-09-07 21:58:55 +0000 UTC]

oh my gosh yes selling others art ??? that isnt even like..yours since you totally ripped off it????? thats so terrible i mean thats almost like taking the arisits money or idk it just has gotta be a form of scamming its bad??

haha no i was in the same boat i said i was 16 once when i was like 12....i wanted people to think i was mature..i regret it...LIKE whyd i do that seriously? and then it just made things worse and honestly my maturity didnt reflect my fake age at all so i was obvious to people as a liar =/ it annoys me to see people making literally the same dumb mistake as i did sigh

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Scotchmint In reply to Ember-star [2016-09-07 22:05:56 +0000 UTC]

yea and I mean it's basically redistribution but without ACTUALLY redistributing, but I'm sure it's a different type of it, taking styles and all. I really hope they get a unique style fast

when I was twelve I said I was sixteen so people would think im mature, and people believed it because (im thirteen) people think that for my age I type like a 15 year old or smth and I take that as a compliment 

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Ember-star In reply to Scotchmint [2016-09-07 22:13:04 +0000 UTC]

oh yeah, i mean my comment was a little harsh but i just feel like if you copy/trace a style it wont make you improve as much since your just copying lines sigh..it might make them slower to get a unique style.

yeah you do seem to type pretty mature!! :3c and your art is surprisingly really good :0 better then i can do and im 15 HA

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Scotchmint In reply to Ember-star [2016-09-07 22:14:39 +0000 UTC]

It was but I mean I hope they learn from it. I don't want to start anything but it just kinda is a pet peeve of mine, especially when someone traces riverspirit also
It may take them a while but I sure hope they'll get to it


aww thank you!! your art is good too wtf

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Ember-star In reply to Scotchmint [2016-09-07 22:23:56 +0000 UTC]

oh my gosh someone traced riverspirit too? that sucks honestly i didnt hear about that one. it is a pet peeve of mine too but i always seem to indirectly start fights when i tell them to stop haha,,, oops
yeah i hope they learn it too

nahhhh my art sucks ahha np

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Scotchmint In reply to Ember-star [2016-09-07 22:26:31 +0000 UTC]

dude EVERYONE traces her 
like everyone 
I could even note you a few but its just like hh

I mean I'm sure they didn't want people to notice and get pissed because you pointed it out while everyone else is a little too polite to mention how it looks like a traced style, so maybe you're just brave

no shUSH

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Ember-star In reply to Scotchmint [2016-09-08 00:44:02 +0000 UTC]

honestly i dont pay much attention to tracers in generel, because i consider them a waste of time, but this one just seemed to piss me off more then others??? maybe cause i saw that they did the traced commissions i dont know what it was really but i felt like i really had to comment ha.

awww thanks!! :3c yeah sometimes i need to be more polite but tbh when it comes to art theft i feel like fighting??everyone???? its just my thing im not good at backing down from fights when someone really annoys me its a proBLEM ha ;-;

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Scotchmint In reply to Ember-star [2016-09-08 00:52:41 +0000 UTC]

I wouldnt put much thought into tracers because soon they'll develop a style of their own even if they trace

yeah dude hh I used to be like that I mean its just not worth it really

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Ember-star In reply to Scotchmint [2016-09-08 01:17:26 +0000 UTC]

yeahh that makes sense :3c

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WillowRaye In reply to xXHollyberryXx [2016-03-12 01:49:01 +0000 UTC]

Aww, I'm sorry man.  Yeah, it stinks that Photoshop is so expensive. I think my subscription is coming up again soon, eww...  
Hey, but if you are looking for a good, cheap program try Sketchbook Pro. I used to use that for ages and it's seriously really great. I think they changed it to subscription-based now? Anyways, it should be cheaper than Photoshop.
But I think what helped my artwork the most wasn't switching from Sketchbook to Photoshop but getting a tablet.
Hope I was able to help!  
(Oh and thanks for the comment!)

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