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ckp β Depression
Published: 2003-11-16 11:38:33 +0000 UTC; Views: 8296; Favourites: 157; Downloads: 699
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Full Title : Now we can afford DepressionDetails : acrylic on canvas , 885X740
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Comments: 208
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I love the colours you've used here... not entirely sure I agree with your message though.
Do you not think rich people can be genuinely depressed? It is an illness after all, a chemical imbalance in the brain, and illnesses by nature do not discriminate in terms of wealth or class. The wealthy can still get physically ill... you wouldn't say, "You're really rich, you've no reason to have cancer." How do you know, without being actually inside somebody's head, that depression is merely a fashion statement for them and not an actual, debilitating condition?
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From day one, this one has been controversial with viewers here. Not so much in India. I think it has to do with class but not in the sense you say, more cultural environ than economic class. This too was about the same time [almost-to-day]Β as the 'off to kill someone else's father'. I was rather new here and perhaps still coping up with the culture shock.
What I saw here was - almost everybody's basic needs are met - food, clothing, shelter and secondary too more or less - security, education, etc. And everybody is 'stressed out'. So the bottom-lines in India and here are vastly different. There sheer survival is a problem - to meet the basic needs. And we have a rising class of neo-rich against dirt-poor. Painting is more addressed to this class than a universal statement. Not only that the arrogance of the neo-rich is to blame the victims of the system - the poor for their plight and India not 'growing' fast enough - that's a different topic though my resentment against this class is the prime motive behind this pic.
I have been challenged during discussions here when I show the pic for real - 'I hope you are not talking of clinical depression'. I am not. I am neither undermining depression of tsunami, earthquake, war victims. This is about the class for whom it indeed is a fashion accessory. I see two or three strong currents behind this depression - one is over-consumerism [if there can be such a term] where people have become what they buy with money - my house, my clothes, my car - mere symbols make me up, decide my station in society, my self-image. But these symbols don't make me wholesome, so vacuity and depression and 'buy peace of mind', as if it were a commodity. Second current is medicine - and relatedly pharmaceuticals. They will invent an illness where there is none. Third current is 'alternative therapies' whether yoga- meditation or reiki or Β feng-shui or scientology - this is a growing business. Lots of money is involved in it. It is this lobby's interest as much as medicine's to keep people constantly under some fear.Some close Indian friends here are very actively dedicated to some sect or the other. One is called 'Art of Living' . They charge you some 250Β£ for a three day- 4 sessions course - every 2 months or so!You attend the session of 3 hours and turn up the next day meaning lodging boarding is not covered in those 250Β£. Obviously only the affording will attend it and stick to it.
Just y'day there was a discussion going on on Sky - are we a nation of hypochondriacs? - I don't know why it took them so long - 13-14 years! - to bring up that topic.Β
As against the reading here, in India it is immediately seen the way I intended. Must be cultural difference, I guess.
anyway, I very much welcome different ways of looking at the issue and disagreements. If you spell out yours, we can talk.Β
By the way, the best comment I have had on this pic Β -
'oh, I thought depression was free!' That still makes me laugh.
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I agree with many of your socio-political points, just not sure we're on the same page with regards to defining "depression". When I studied psychology we were told that depression as an illness often has no specific cause. So if a person was grieving after a personal loss or traumatised by war or natural disaster, from a psychiatric perspective they wouldn't be described as having depression... grief, trauma or PTSD may apply, but we were told "depression" is usually only diagnosed when the problem is long term and not a reaction to a specific event. However, I only studied psychology to A-level, so maybe the definition is broader when studied at university level. The definition has also become problematic due to possible overuse and self-diagnosis, so maybe we are on the same page with our attitudes towards "therapy as a fashion statement" culture.
On a personal note, I guess the piece strikes a nerve because during times of severe mental instability I've been judged by some for not managing a socially acceptable level of sanity despite the privileges of my First World upbringing. You know from reading my book that I'm not some spoiled rich brat but I've had that assumption made about me by others, possibly because I'm quite well spoken or because I have access to a computer. While on a global scale I've had quite an easy life, it's still been my own personal hell at times. This makes me try not to judge another person's suffering as being fake just because their life looks easy from my perspective, even though some people test my patience at times.
By the way, I'm not saying you are necessarily making those kind of judgements yourself, just that it could be read that way. It's definitely an interesting piece of work to have inspired such debate and varied interpretations.
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To give an example of what I said about an individual looking at one of my works through his/her perspective -
I had held an in-house [garage, really!] show of my paintings in a new house we had moved into, about 5-6 years back. A next-door late middle-aged couple came to view it.
The woman asked me the meaning of a painting called - hastening departure, delaying departure
ckp.deviantart.com/art/hasteniβ¦
This is about military and medicine - how military hastens death and medicine prolongs it. So, this is what I told them. Then a lady visited who told me that the entire british medical system is based on the military model. I didn't know this. So, I was glad in a way to have hit it on the head.
After a few days, the man [of the couple] gave me a book written by his daughter who died of cancer at the age of 33. Book is a print version of her blog during the treatment which had quite a bit of following and a complimentary comment by Stephen Fry [if I am not mistaken]. Then the woman explained to me - what is not in the book is - she got cancer as inherited genes - i.e. from the mother - herself.
Now I couldn't kick myself enough for explaining the painting. I had no clue about their personal tragedy.
And still I tend to stand by my painting.
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Thanks Carlie for a detailed response! I truly appreciate it.
Idea is to provoke, not just produce eye-candy or something so abstract nobody can connect with it. As said in my earlier reply, this is not a universal statement. Nor am I conversant with definition of Depression - how it differs from trauma or anxiety...Nor do I ever undermine or trivialise somebody's anguish. Still, the basic aim of my work [I dare not call it 'art'] is to document social pathology. Where does a phenomenon fit into social scene? I mean global scene. So all I am saying is depression has a class facet, often ignored. It can be seen more in the West but also in haves in developing countries. Β
Your point re being nonjudgmental is interesting too. This is quite a dilemma for me. If I am value neutral, I really support status quo. I have no statement to make. And that is wrong. You know Graham Greene used to say something like - it is duty of an artist / we owe it to society...to be a piece of grit in the state machinery. Since his time, State has other contenders to control the system - mentioned earlier like medicine-pharmaceutical nexus, paranoia creating agents, etc. Someway, I would like this venture of mine to be upsetting, not for the sake of it, not as a rabble-rouser but to say something I see as having some validity. Necessarily, it becomes a generalised statement seen by a viewer thru' the individual life-experiences - and that can become contentious.
Anyway, whether we agree or not I really like that we have some discussion on an issue. That is very important to me. I am grateful to you for sparing some thought and time for furthering the discussion.
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Like those so wealthy, that they can afford to avoid food...
The posture of the figure as well as the strong use of blue tones gives me a sense of drowning/being underwater/overwhelmed - by possessions, perhaps, but also the weight of expectations, and the lingering unease of confusion - Shouldn't I be happy? Why aren't I? Oh it's all so dreadfully unpleasant....better to think upon other things...
Drowning in want-have, instead of finding their own shoreline - the seated figure could be in a languid, indulgent frame of mind - or confused, lost, empty in those rare quiet moments where something, or someone isn't present to distract them from it. They have nothing else to do. They have not been challenged or asked to be anything ELSE. They are lost.
The red to me connotates opulence, but also made me think of blood/life/veins, the inexorable march of a human lifetime against that lifetime's achievements and collections.....
Bringing to mind the aristocratic families and their walls of portraits - (I once rather liked that idea, but now find rather macabre), their "blood/history" coursing through the house, because that is where their life "is" - that is how they are defined - in the things around them - and not INSIDE them.
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beautiful review
you write so well
thanks a lot
and silly of me not have given the link to the painting in the first place!
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No problem at all, was easy enough to find it by the keywords. 
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you are absolutely a breath of fresh air for me.Not only this comment, some other which I have saved and am going to reply soon, really has added a dimension to my perception. Comments such as these are a treasure, much much worthy than useful, honest!
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I like the ambiance of this painting, and I love your gallery lot's of beautiful paintings.
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I'm in love with this. The cool tones contrasting to the red makes it kind of sad in a beautiful way
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Great concept painted in here, and such a great job on details, also the color palette chosen is really original.
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Very deep. If only depression were a bit more expensive, huh? XD
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thanks
thanks for the fav too!!
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Dig the depth. The tones give this a dream-like quality.
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thanks and thanks for the fav on this and detail of bury my heart too!!
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Generally I`m not very interesten in paintings but yours are great I like the colour and the perspective, they`re very photographical
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Thanks!
I am glad that someone from a different faculty finds the work interesting.
thanks for both the fav-s too!
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i love this because it shows that no amount of money can make people with depression happy. if i only had (enter anything here) i'd be happy... no, you wouldn't.
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well,
your interpretation is valid of course
but what I intend to convey is that Depression has become a commodity , a fashion accessory these days - for the affording upper and middle-classes
- that is why the full title -
now we can afford Depression.
I can understand Depression of the Haiti earthquake victims, of the tsunami victims or war -victims...but this is an industry now to treat the well-to-do for their fancy ennui through Reiki, yoga, feng-shui, scientism and what your purse can finance.The painting is aimed at this class.
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yes, i definitely understand your view. every other person i meet tells me that they've been diagnosed as bi-polar. it's s new money-making fad. but having suffered from major depression since i was a child, (back when depression just meant that you weren't feeling happy), there has never been enough money or fame or glory or even love to keep it away. so my take on it is that of an insider, one who chugs pills daily to keep from killing themselves.
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Very Interesting.
Your style reminds me of artists who were drawing in the first half of 20-th century;
Like Ben Shan, Felix Nusbaum and others.
It's somewhat "simplified" style of drawing with incorrect perspective and proportions that carry an idea by all those means -which make it stronger, leaving a deep impression.
I was wondering, what did you have in mind while drawing this piece?
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hi Genny,
Nice to hear from you after a while.
and thanks for a browse of my work and perceptive comments, as always.It is a pleasure for me to explain and discuss issues raised in my work. That indeed is the only motive.
Thanks as well for the 'technical' reading of this particular painting and finding it effective. I am a self-taught painter [hesitate to call myself 'artist' as invariably the technicalities like anatomy, light-and-shadow, colour-balance, etc are a banal disaster in my work!]
As to what I want to convey -
the woman may be in her 30s, in palatial surroundings. These days 'depression' has become an 'in' thing for such or middle class anywhere in the world.Depression of a billion in the world who go hungry to bed every night all through their life,that of victims of tsunami or earthquakes is perfectly understandable to me, not of this class. The painting is a caustic comment on this class.
Not surprisingly, treatment of depression is big business now - whether feng Shui, Reiki, yoga, meditation... all props for further self-centredness [actually the very root cause of the ailment, as I see it!]
and to those who can 'afford' it.That is why the full title - now we can afford depression.
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Hey
I just thought I might hope in for a short visit. You do interesting things, and your art usually carries an interesting idea behind it. You are not one of the people who would draw what is beautiful and conventional. And I appreciate it in your art, and also the way you choose to set a discussion. It is very important and very few people know to do it in an appropriate and civilized form.
Well, as it seems from your explanation i've understood what you meant!
Actually when confronting depression it's very complicated issue, and you showed one very important side of it. But it's only one side.
I was almost always in depression. I tried to fight it off - all alone, it was a battle never to be won or over and at some point I grew tired and almost gave up. Only in the last year I started a medical treatment, and it really helps. I don't need to fight anymore, I can have my life and live it. So yeah, there is definitely this side - when people use what they have out of boredom and ignorance (and other causes), but on the other side - there is a bright practical part, since many people, like me can be happy.
I know that each and each of us as a person can not solve all those problems in the world, you've mantioned.
But I doubt that mankind would ever solve all of those, and meanwhile if some can have a better life - why not? Suffering just for the sake of it, just because others do - inevitably or not, is illogical - if you can make yourself a better life - you should do it (as long as it's harmless for you and others).
Well, this is how I think about the subject.
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I admit I am showing only one side of Depression. I perfectly understand the genuine clinical depression and the painting does not include that type.This is necessarily against such people whose great ennui arises out of lack of social empathy and Depression has become more a fashion accessory to them.And I meet such people - who would be depressed because they missed the latest fashion show.
And, a methodological problem is I'll have to write an essay qualifying what I mean by Depression here.Which, given my training in Sociology, I decidedly do not want to.
I agree with all the rest of your points in principle. But again, give it a thought - it is indeed very difficult to make a better life AND not be harmful to others.My idea of better life may be to have an SUV which necessarily guzzles petrol and is detrimental to the environment. Or a nation's idea of better life is to have astronauts in the orbit - a sheer waste of billions,in my opinion.Or even take a 'simple' habit like eating meat. It utilises multiple times the earth's resources than a veg diet - first you fatten the cows/pigs/chicken and then slaughter them...
I think it is impossible to draw a line.
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Yes, reading essays tend to be hard, but writing ones?! Is even harder. I hope you'll find the inspiration and write a good essay, besides, that subjects is really broad one so I think that you will not have too much difficulties finding references, actually there is awesome site for academic essays, if you want I might provide you with the link.
You have got some very interesting points there, and I agree that you can not really draw a line - what is more or less harmful.
As I see it, when I say harm: I mean murder, rape, stealth and corruption, drug and weapon industry, pollutants that released uncontrolled in different regions, chopping of trees, while no other being planted instead. Things like that.
Just being curious, are you vegan?
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thanks
Actually I worked for a few years as a social researcher after my post-graduation in Sociology [I am a metallurgical engineering graduate, so came to social sciences after being fed up with industry!]. Writing essays was all I did. And I saw through the tediousness of 'scholarship' - it means who has longer list of references, not WHAT you are saying. That is why I turned to painting as a medium, away from verbosity of social sciences.
Still, I write monthly columns for a couple of magazines in India on contemporary political issues. Have been lax in uploading the translations here though.
You can have a browse of my gallery whenever you have time.
I would be keen to know your reaction.
And no, I am not a vegan. It is mostly fish though that I eat, that too, may be once in a fortnight. Hardly any red meats though.
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You are welcome.
Wow! Your experience is amazing. Also I was wondering about your English, as it is on a professional level. Not many bother themselves to use such a variety of words while speaking online with someone. I even use a dictionary for some of the words you type in your comments. ^^'
I try to use a proper language, but inevitably, mistakes keep sneaking in...
So now you work as a reporter for newspapers?
Well, that's what I did before, which brought us to those long discussions.
I pick a work that catches my eye, and that it's description interests me, aaand that it's issue is not something that I am going to fight over (I've got really lousy experiences with those cases) and then I comment. So I got to have an inspiration, but sure I'll visit sometime again and look at some other works as well.
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lol,no
I don't mean to fight at all!
Just that you might get an idea of how the same issue is looked at from the Third world perspective!
Interesting that you worked for a newspaper earlier!
Thanks for the compliment on my English as well!It is actually my third or fourth language, so may be I tend to be more accurate than colloquial english-as mother-tongue speakers.
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Heh, you are the first person that is not willing to fight on the net over something sensitive or "sentimental"!
A third perspective? Is there such a thing nowadays?
No, I never worked as a reporter, how did you get that idea?
I just asked you if You were making a living out of your writing work for the newspapers, like a reporter?
The only article I ever wrote, was for school newspaper about Mikhail Gorbachev, who visited our school during his 2-week visit in Israel in 2003 (I think).
And since I was working then on my second book, and my class teacher caught me writing something during his visit she asked me to write a short article about it to our school newspaper, which I did unwillingly, since I hated politics, even then...
You are welcome, it's a pleasure to talk with you.
Could you remind me, what other languages do you speak?
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I meant Third World perspective, not a third perspective! How we, from the underdeveloped part of the world see the powers, though, thankfully, these powers are diminishing.
interesting if you got to see Gorbachev! I always think he has been much under-rated both in his own country and in the West. The west does not surprise me, they discard anyone other than pop-stars, but Russia itself rejected him, almost.
I must have misread some comment and got the idea that you worked as a reporter sometime in your life!! Never mind, these slips are common I believe.
Well, as to the languages - marathi is my mother-tongue. This is a regional Indian language. Spoken in a state in western India, of which Mumbai is the capital[you might have heard of Mumbai, or Bombay, as it was known until recently , that is where a big muslim terrorist attack took place recently]. India is a huge country, and numbers are immense - like marathi is spoken by 120 million people - more than the entire population of Britain, where I live.
Then, Hindi is our national language, though it is spoken by more by the north of the country..at a guess half a billion people speak that language. We are taught that in schools from early years. So, that is another language I know.
then comes our ancient language called sanskrit - it is not spoken any more. It is extinct like ancient Greek.But I studied it out of my own interest.I take a lot of time to write it grammatically correct but I can read it.
And then comes English which too I can read/write/speak. That is how English is actually a fourth language for me.
And I studied German too, for some strange reason. I can speak/read/write that too.
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That could be indeed interesting.
No, I don't under-rate him. It's just I did not want to write about him, I don't like politics and back then i did not like the subject very firmly, much more than now. He seemed like a nice person, when it comes to kids and cameras. He even sang two songs with us. I think I was 16-17 years old, back then.
Well, he ruined the communistic regime and broke the USSR, he freed all the countries that remained broken and underdeveloped after the WW2 (comparing to the west Europe), crushed the country order which led to a decade of degradation: which included the arising murderous mafias who are now the richest people in Russia and some of them rule the country, greater corruption and to a formation of bribe system in every civil system (hospitals, schools, militia, law departments and etc..), a year or two of famine with inflation, ah and it is almost led to a civil war - while the white house (parliament) was burning in flames. I remember all of those, since I was a kid when it was happening.
I guess it's more than enough to become hated, especially by the Russians themselves, who had to suffer this on their own flash.
I don't judge him. I don't know enough about how it used to be, and how it is now. I know that now, it's much better than in early 90-ties. I know that there were many bad things before, but also there were some successful things too.
Yep, it happened to me too with some of my friends. Never-mind.
Wow, I had no idea India was such widely populated country! It's enormous comparing to tiny Israel! Actually I know very little about India. I know it's very poor country and very polluted one.
It seems that you know many complicated languages, you probably have a talent for languages. That's pretty cool.
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Great work ... It speaks for itself .. This feeling is beautiful
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thank you very much indeed for the comment!
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