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Eric-3 β -2018- Seeing Red
#red #sonja #redsonja
Published: 2018-01-13 10:54:54 +0000 UTC; Views: 2530; Favourites: 24; Downloads: 5
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Red Sonja.I had a lot of trouble getting to this. I don't know if too much time has passed since I last drew that I got rusty again or if I just have random periods of rustiness regardless, but I scrapped 4 pages of attempted drawings before getting this out. And then, even this isn't that good. It was the best I could seem to do that day though.
I had trouble coming up with an idea for a pose for this. All I really knew was that I didn't want to do a blatantly sexy pose. I don't have a problem with that kind of picture in general, but in certain contexts it just comes off way too cheesy or unnatural to me. Like, for this character being a warrior, it just seems out of character. "Oh, I'm in the middle of a battle; I better stick my chest and butt out, because that will help me fight better."
I was looking up pictures just for costume reference, and there's so much of that with Red Sonja. It just looks too fake, like she's posing sexy for a camera and the scene is staged (and I assume cameras weren't around in her time/setting but even if I'm wrong, surely you know what I mean). People don't normally stand that way.
If she were a model or whatever, sure, conveniently sexy poses that are largely impractical outside of having your photo taken would make sense. Or just a regular person, something where it would be more reasonable. That's fine. I don't have a problem with that. But if she's a warrior...no. I wanted this to feel more "real". She's here to fight. She's gonna fight.
I'm not saying people shouldn't draw that; I think people should draw what they want. I'm just mentioning it as my own reasoning for my own drawing.
My first idea was just her standing with weapons out, roughed up like she just took down a bunch of enemies. It was too generic though, and I saw other pictures of her already similar to that.
Then I was doing a bunch of random scribbles trying to find a pose and came up with one that was like her on top of someone and about to bring her sword down into him, from the view of the guy. But then I noticed that her arm, being raised and back (winding up for the attack), was going to largely be covered up by her hair. Or at least the sword would've been covered by her hair.
So I went through 4 pages trying to get something to work. I finally landed on this, which was mostly a tweak of the previous idea. I was pretty frustrated at the time, and I think my frustration influenced the picture. I just wanted to punch something...
I kept this one though because I liked how the face came out. So I tried to make the rest of the picture work around that. It really didn't come out as well as I wanted since parts of it are still very flawed, but I just could not get anything to work better.
The legs are awkwardly posed. The main problem was that I didn't have any space left on the paper to lay it out, so I had to "imagine" the rest of the legs (and some of the surrounding area) and try to do something that would work with the idea, but not actually draw the legs for the most part. It was weird and I didn't really succeed.
Another problem with that is that you can barely see them; the leg on the right (her left) was supposed to be pointing forward somewhat, like in between perfectly forward and perfectly sideways. But since you can barely see it, it's hard to tell and it ends up looking more like it's posed pointing back as if she were doing the splits or something.
I also totally messed up the foreshortening of the arm. For someone that does foreshortening so often, I am extremely bad at it. And what you see here is after I tried to fix it on the computer. The original scan was even worse. I probably should've drawn the hand in the back smaller too, but I was afraid I'd mess up the general drawing of the hand if I erased it and redrew it.
And I'm horrible at low angle shots, so I'm sure there's a bunch more wrong in this.
I tried to colour this to make it look like an old comic like with faded ink, aged paper, halftones (?), etc. It didn't turn out as well as I had hoped, but I spent hours tweaking it and this seemed to be the best I could do.
I think part of the reason it looks unconvincing is that the drawing style doesn't match that era. I only thought of the idea when it came time to colour, so I didn't take it into account while still drawing. Even if I did though, I still don't think it would've improved the effect as much as I would want. I don't normally like trying to copy some other style of drawing anyway and would rather do my own thing.
I only added the white border/panel look to have some white in the picture, so that the idea of it being aged paper/an old comic would be more obvious.
This is for . I hope you like this picture that I just...criticized the hell out of.
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Comments: 54
Since you faved it, I'm going to assume that it was some sort of autocorrect that made your comment sound like you loathed the picture.
Thanks, man. I appreciate it.
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Dude... Dude! This is amazing! The perspective, the raw unhinged emotion? You did an incredible job on her! She really does look perfectly proportioned and designed. And not for nothing, but everyone always draws her with her clothes untouched or a basic wardrobe malfunction. The fact that you drew her disheveled and battered makes this more real. Excellent work!
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Thanks a lot!
I really wanted the scene to feel more real, so that means a lot to me.
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Youβre very welcome
Iβd say you definitely pulled that off. Sonja looks great.
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Maybe now that Marvel has the rights to Conan again, they'll get Sonja back, too.
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I donβt think you want Marvel to have the character she had s brief flirtation with sjw politics and it was awful.
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I don't know what that means.
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I'm kinda surprised they don't just go together, as far as rights go.
Granted, I don't know that much about either character 
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She's a mash-up of two Robert E. Howard characters but as she is, she was created for a Conan comic at Marvel. Apparently though, her rights are held by her writer and thus Marvel doesn't have access to her.
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This looks great! I think the coloring looks nice, and I think you got the pose down pretty well. It looks great without looking too "fake". It's cool how much effort you put into the pose, since I constantly see artists drawing female characters with their butt or boobs hanging out in inconvenient ways. This looks a lot more real than those other drawings. 
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Thanks a bunch! I appreciate your thoughts on it and I'm glad you think it doesn't look too fake.
I can understand why people would want to draw that but there's a point where it's just too silly, cliche, and typical. I prefer to try and have more logic and originality.
And I admit that some of my female character designs are silly in that sort of way too, but...I dunno. I just feel differently when it comes to poses and scenes as opposed to character designs. I think a silly design can still work in a scene, but I just can't believe a silly pose. A silly pose looks way more forced to me than a silly design, for some reason.
Oh yeah, and thanks for taking the time to read the commentary. I type such lengthy ones and I don't expect that many people actually read any of it. It's always nice when someone is actually interested enough to read it.
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One thing I find interesting is how when designing characters, people often give their male designs full-body sets of armor, but with the female designs, the legs and stomach are exposed. It makes me want to draw a male character in revealing armor, just for the heck of it.
Yeah, I agree. Besides, silly designs can always be explained away ("She absorbs mana through her skin!") while the same can't really be done for a silly pose.
When asked why he gave 2B heels, the creator of Nier: Automata replied with "I like pretty girls."Β
Of course!
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There are some male character designs that are comparably lacking clothes. Lacking a shirt at least, and some also lacking pants. There are also some male characters that tend to lose their shirts in battle, if you want to count that. But I do definitely agree that it's skewed toward female character designs.
Go for it.
That's what I did.
"Briefly, Reaper bodies are shells created from their soul. They get their energy from their soul and many of their abilities and extra strength and defense come from projecting their soul energy out (like controlled/focused venting). The less covering up their shell, the less the soul energy has to overcome to be effective. More covering the shell up would be like turning a fan on then throwing a cover over it and blocking the wind."
To be fair, that was a concept I put into my characters years before it was being applied to females with silly designs.
And in my defense, I have one or two exposing female character designs that are actually the same designs as when I was originally designing them as male characters before I changed them.
Besides, it's a fact that people fight better with less clothes. Did you finish watching Yakuza 0? Almost every Yakuza game ends with a shirtless men battle. That's how they fight at their peak. They literally glow with raw energy the whole game, waiting to be released from their clothes so that energy can be unleashed against their opponent.
Haha. I respect his honesty.
Have you watched the first NieR? Or are at least familiar with Kaine? She has a pretty ridiculous design, but they actually tied it into her character and story very well. The primary intention probably was still fanservice, but it's great that they actually wrote a pretty deep/substantial, unique character around it.
And Yoko Taro does try to take men's clothes off too. www.youtube.com/watch?v=S464O_β¦
Thanks so much! That's really nice to hear someone thinks that and it means a lot to me.
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Huh. Interesting.
That's a pretty interesting explanation. I like it.
One tip I'd like to give, though, in case you plan on redesigning some characters in the future-- I know from experience that running or doing any kind of physical activity without a bra on is very uncomfortable. For your female characters, maybe you could give them clothing with some kind of support? This is just a suggestion, of course.Β Β It would make it a lot easier for them to run or fight.
Haha! That might be one of the best videos I've ever seen.Β Β
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Thanks. Back in the early 2000s, I was still into Dragon Ball Z and my characters were heavily influenced by it (at least in ability). I hate just having something "be" and not have an explanation of how it works though, so I had to come up with how my characters had super strength and durability and could fly and shoot projectiles and stuff. It's not actually super strength, durability, or flight but rather a bunch of physics shenanigans. Thanks, old Physics class I had in high school.
I don't currently have intentions of significant redesigns, but it could happen. I did redesign one of my characters a couple years ago when I was suddenly inspired by some cool clothes I saw.
Curse you for manipulating my appreciation for logic against me!
If you mean my Reaper characters specifically, I'm not against the idea but I also have a theme to continue. All my Reapers (including males:
Β
)
are just in scant rags and bone material accessory things. So a grim reaper theme with the skeleton and plain ragged cloth.
If a bone material bra could work, that's cool and I'd be willing to think of how it could look but I also don't want them all to be wearing the same thing/design of bra (or bra equivalent) either. I like trying to have variety but also consistency. Like, I want them to be different enough to stand out from each other but not so different that they don't look like a team.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Yoko Taro is special.
He's had a fair number of...unique videos and messages. I like it; I see a lot of people in the industry be really serious or sometimes pretentious about everything (or the games themselves being overly serious), so it's refreshing when someone is more humourous and fun.
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Physics, eh? Now I'm curious-- how exactly does physics help your characters have all those abilities?
I redesign my characters all the time, as I'm never happy with their designs. I think the only design I'm actually currently happy with 100% is Jasper's (or maybe Ava's too.) Still need to give Corbin a proper reference that isn't a crappy sketch, but it works, sooooo....(I also want to give him a lab coat. rip. you see the problem here? haha.)
Mmm, I see.
I'm picturing a bra design that uses a bone beneath the chest as support/a design choice, with fabric that can be tied around the back of the neck. There are a million ways to design a bra-- does it have straps or not? How much fabric does it use? But I don't know if I'm making you uncomfortable or not.
Haha, definitely.
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I may not be using the correct terms and stuff, but anyway:
It heavily revolves around harnessing and projecting soul energy out kind of like a jet propulsion and using it as force.
-For example, my characters can't really fly or hover through normal means. They're projecting enough energy downwards to negate the force of gravity so that they don't get pulled down.
-They can't move at super speeds through normal means. They're projecting energy backwards to thrust themselves forwards.
-They don't have high durability. They're projecting energy outwards at a super high speed to push back against an incoming force, reducing its acceleration and thus its impact. They may also have to project an equal energy outwards in the opposite direction to balance it out so that the defensive energy doesn't also physically push them in an unintended direction.
Stuff like that. Different characters have different levels of control and mastery. Some characters are clumsy with these actions or don't have the focus to do more than one of these at a time, etc.
Later on, I also expanded on other ideas of the soul. But this is the main stuff in relation to your question.
So give him a lab coat.
Maybe I've asked this already, but what do you use your characters for? Is there a specific story they're attached to, or is it just for drawing?
I mean, I have redesigned some of my characters multiple times, but that was over the course of years. I think I'm at the point with most of them that I'm pretty much done adjusting them.
I can try to design some bone underneath as support, but I don't want it to look too much like regular clothing. I want the bone pieces to look kind of organic. They're supposed be more a part of the character rather than being worn by the character, if that helps explain what I'm going for. Like this one, the bone design is supposed to be reminiscent of an actual skeleton torso:
cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0722β¦
So I don't know if I can include traditional straps and ties and such. Though I do have one character that does actually have cloth rather than bone covering her chest.
There are different ways to design a real bra, yeah, but in the end I would think they would all have two cups and a horizontal "base" of some sort connecting the whole thing and holding it to the body. That's the kind of "same design" aspect I'd like to try and avoid as much as I can. Like if I can design it to go in different directions, that would be nice. Right now, I have one that has horizontal bone covering, one that has vertical bone covering, and I could adjust one so she has diagonal bone covering. My goal was visual variety, but I don't know if I can design the vertical one to actually make sense as a bra while still avoid horizontal design elements on it.
No, not at all. I was worried that you'd be the one uncomfortable about it. I'm fine.
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Hey, that's pretty cool!
I want to. Trust me, I want to. But it would mean redrawing his reference and I have some other stuff I need to get to first
Most of them have their own stories. I still haven't fully developed any of them, though... I think Jasper and Corbin are the most developed. Sirena's story is a bunch of vague ideas glued together by procrastination. (I could talk about them all day, though. Maybe talking about them would help. If you ever want to chat about OCs, let me know.)
Ahh, I see. Well, I'm not sure I can help you much more then
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Thanks.
How many contest prizes do you have left? One?
Aha. I'm not sure I could say any of my characters' stories are fully developed either. I have things like backstories, personalities, and relationships (not necessarily romantic) for most of them and some more than others but I don't have an actual formal story written around it all. I mean...I did have actual comics drawn of two sets of characters and did a short game of another set of characters, but I've since expanded/re-written a lot of it and so that old stuff doesn't really stand now.
If you want to talk, I'll listen. Are you looking for feedback or ideas, or just conversation? I don't know if I can top my story of the farmer that rose to gang leadership after a drought devastated his harvest and he needed a new way to support himself and then battled a crazy cat lady princess and her army of cat warriors that was bestowed upon her by a cat deity.
Thanks.
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Yup, one! I have the sketch done and I just need to line/color/shade it.
Same here! My most-developed characters each have a document dedicated to their story/backstory. Sirena has this handsome character named Chase (?) who's supposed to be her love interest but I'm not sure how they meet yet. It's kind of silly, to be honest.
Anything! Discussion, feedback, anything! I feel like talking to someone about my characters could be a good way to develop them better.
Damn. No, you really can't top that.
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I hope you had fun doing all the prizes.
Sometimes it's fun drawing stuff for other people and it can give me more motivation to get working and try harder. But then there are other times where I have to draw stuff that I have no interest in and it sucks.
Is he named Chase as a play on Sirena chasing after this love, like him being hard to get or mysteriously elusive or something like that?
Depending on the tone you're going for, silly isn't necessarily bad. It could be great, even. Since we were talking about Yakuza: its silly moments are some of its greatest and most memorable, yet at the same time not outshining or being outshined by its greatest and most memorable serious moments. It's a strange clashing of polar opposites that shouldn't really work, yet it somehow works amazingly well to create a fun, engrossing experience.
In that regard, it actually kind of reminds me of the game Deadly Premonition. It's a bizarre mix of murder mystery, horror, comedy, drama, and romance that just works. Somehow.
If you think talking would help, I'd be glad to.
I know, right? Like, everyone should just stop writing now because what's the point when no one will ever come up with a greater story than that?
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For me, it depends on the OC. 
HA! No, no. I think he'd be the one who ends up liking her. She's more...stoic. (I came up with that on the spot. Like, I knew she wasn't very passionate, but I really hadn't given this romance much thought until now!) Sirena's mother was a witch married to the king of this country. She....got together (?) with this other dude and had Sirena. Soon after Sirena was born, her husband found out she was a witch and sent search parties after her. The country had already been prejudiced toward witches, but that night the king decreed that it was completely legal and even encouraged to hunt down witches and kill them. She was burned alive, but Sirena was protected by, like, this weird panther spirit that fused with her soul and killed a bunch of the people who killed her mom. Yup.
Chase's father was the king that Sirena's mother was married to. He had a mistress, and after his wife was caught and burned he officially took the boy in. So, Chase and Sirena are not related by blood at all, and they never meet until she's like, 16 or 17.
See! We're talking, and I already have so many new ideas about them. /o/
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Ah, I miss magazines. I mean, I know they still make them in general, but I don't know if the ones that interest me are still around. Like, I don't know if any video game magazines are still around here. I liked comic, anime, and action figure/toy magazines too. Or are you not referring to printed paper magazines?
That's why I generally don't draw detailed character designs. If it's an existing character, my obsessive attention will be bent on getting everything accurate and it will be so much work. If it's an original character, it would be a pain to draw it more than once. I'd have to design something that isn't difficult to recreate. The only time I design something more complicated is when I have no intention of drawing it again.
I'll be curious to see the finished picture. Who is the character?
Are you going to elaborate (not to me, but I mean in the story) on why she's stoic? Make something of it? I think it's more interesting when there's a reason why a character has developed his or her traits, rather than just having them for the sake of having them.
And...was Sirena's mother also a crazy cat lady that worshipped a cat deity, and the cat deity bestowed the panther spirit to Sirena for protection as reward for her mother's faith..?
I joke, but it is kind of amusing how there are parallels/similarities. My crazy cat lady was a princess. Wouldn't Sirena's mother being married to the king make her the queen? And my cat deity's warriors fought and killed the princess' enemies.
Have you determined when or where this takes place? Like what year or time-period, is it Earth, etc.
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I'm referring to something similar, but not quite the same
Estelle from Trails in the Sky (?) I hope I remembered the name of the game correctly. I know nothing about her character, but she's got a great design. In fact, it's so great, that I'm dying a little inside. And so are my hands. And my motivation.
That's....a good point you bring up. I hadn't really thought of it. Maybe she used to be more open as a small child, until a friend she was very close to stopped talking to her because their parents didn't trust witches. (Though witches were considered bad luck and dangerous by many communities, Sirena was raised by an older witch in a town that actually relied on the woman for stuff like medicine.) Perhaps she becomes more stoic because of this, and develops a fear of becoming too close to people, lest they find out what she is!
You should be a writer.
Speaking of cats, my genderbent Sirena character in FFXIV is a Hyur (human) and only shortly after making him a Hyur did I realize that I should have made him a Miqo'te (cat person). What a wasted opportunity. I need more Fantasia. (Fantasia lets you change your character's sex and...species (?))
AHA! An opportunity to talk about my worlds!!
I have three worlds that my OCs are generally set in. Each of my worlds is essentially one world, except that when a world's time ends, a "Ragnarok" of sorts (aka the apocalypse) happens and the world is destroyed, and then reborn.
We have Prima Earth, the first Earth (which is just like our world. The history is the same. It's basically Earth. Any magic seen here is usually minimally experienced by one person, and they usually write themselves off as crazy, or other people do if they tell anyone. Any magic experienced also has its root in other realms, as Prima cannot sustain its own magic).
After the world is reborn, we have Aurora Earth. It's a new dawn of sorts-- the dawn of magic. Magic exists, demons exist, and it's a lot easier to use magic than in Prima Earth. The lines between worlds are blurred, and it is easier to travel between them.
Finally, we have Apex. Here, technology and magic are given equal room to grow, and so what those in modern Prima would refer to as the "future" happens a lot sooner than it would in another world. (Technological growth is given a decent amount of room to grow in Prima, and only a little room to grow in Aurora, so technological development in Aurora would take far longer than in Prima.) Magic and technology bloom in cities colored with neon lights, but beneath this sparkling exterior lies the underworld, riddled with crime due to all this excess power. It is difficult to travel between worlds, but not as difficult as it is in Prima, and people in general are more open-minded and aware of these worlds.
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Ah. I thought you were referring to professional mass-produced magazines. That kind of zine sounds really cool though! I'd love to be part of something like that, at least if it's a printed one (I usually don't like digital-only anything).
Are Persona and Danganronpa your two main fandoms?
Oh, yeah, Trails in the Sky. I've heard of that series and Legend of Heroes, but I've never played any of them. They're supposedly really good. I think I first saw Estelle's costume as a collaboration outfit in Dead or Alive 5. Not sure if it's the same one you're drawing though, since she seems to have multiple designs:
omgfloofy.sanctuarycrew.com/wpβ¦
Ahhh, I'm sure you'll do great with it. How much more do you have to do on it?
I don't think all characters need an explanation behind their personalities but I think it does help to have at least some (depending on the tone/genre of the story), especially if it's a more central character.
Alright. Yeah, that sounds good.
Now, does she stay stoic or does this develop over time in the story?
Thanks. 
Oh, that would've been a nice fit. Is it difficult to get Fantasia?
That sounds really cool. Are these just backdrops for the main story, or do the characteristics of the settings actively play into the main story?
I'm unclear on what you mean by travelling between worlds though. Do you mean travelling between Prima, Aurora, and Apex? I thought only one existed at a time, succeeding the destroyed previous world.
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I don't know which I prefer. I like it when artists get a copy of both the physical and digital versions, so in case you spill coffee or something on your physical version you always have a back up. (I back up everything important online, like my fanfiction. 
That's definitely the design I know and lo-- *collapses* (No really, I love her design, I just think it's been seared in my memory at this point. I don't think I'll be able to look at it the same way again, ahaha... I felt similarly after finishing my latest drawing of Byakuya Togami. I have a love-hate relationship with his suit.)
Thank you! I decided to take a different approach instead of sketching, lining, and then coloring. I decided to color the sketch, and my next step is to refine it. I recall doing something similar with another piece of mine:Β Bond Β
You're asking such good questions-- they really make me think. Remind me to write this all down later? x'D
I'm not sure whether she opens up or builds up more walls, actually. That would depend on where her story goes and how much trauma I put her through.Β Β I know I definitely want the story to reach its climax with her visiting the royal ball, and for some kind of commotion to happen at the ball, but I'm not quite sure what I want beyond that.
Yes! That sounds interesting, yeah. This is slightly unrelated, but it makes me wonder...how might a story told through just news articles play out? Hmm...
I think apart from getting it in-game (I don't know/remember how you'd get it in-game. Possibly through some important quest or something?) <---I actually looked it up after typing that and I think it may be a subscription reward? Maybe? I think you can buy it for real money...just like you can buy outfits and name changes.
I'm not sure yet! I'm actually thinking that during her journey, Sirena may encounter some half-buried, rusted-over helicopters or machinery left over from the last "Ragnarok".
Oh, no, I'm sorry I made it confusing!! I meant worlds like, the Land of the Dead and the Demon Realm. (I have a character that's a succubus, and another that's supposed to be an incubus, though both are badly in need of redesigning...) Each main Earth does only exist one at a time.
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Oh, sure I would like a digital backup. I just mean I wouldn't want digital-only, since I prefer physical.
Fanfiction, huh?
I get ya. There have been times where I've been looking at something or someone for so long to draw it that I got tired and part of me didn't want to see it anymore for a while.
I remember that picture. I like the colours. Something about the background gave me an 80s vibe for some reason.
The style looks pretty interesting, so I look forward to seeing this one you're working on!
I developed a skill for keeping people engaged and talking to buy time and distract them from shenanigans going on behind them Copy and paste it in a document! That's what I did when I found myself talking about my characters and worlds and then realized that I should keep this information somewhere so that I don't have to remember later what I came up with.
Hm...I don't know enough about what the story itself is to have a feel for what the tone is. But since you bring up trauma and the hinting possibility of excessive trauma, I'm guessing it's not a sugary kid's fairy tale and could get kinda dark. The predictable thing to do in a love story would be to have her slowly break down those walls and warm up to the guy. I think it could be more interesting to subvert those expectations because it would otherwise be predictable.
Though, a predictable outcome in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. If it's written well enough and the journey to that end is developed smartly, it could still be good.
Still, I think a less common outcome could be more interesting. It doesn't even necessarily have to be that she doesn't break down those walls because of him. She still could...but then maybe something else happens after she lowers her guard...
Of course, it's your story and you should do whatever you like with it.
I think you might be referring to an epistolary story. I've never read one to really comment on it though. Some video games also kind of tell their story in a similar way, with a lot of information having to be pieced together through documents you find rather than the more standard cutscenes and dialogues.
Ah. I'm a sucker for paying for costumes. How the player character looks is so important to me. It can easily tip the balance of whether I buy a game or not.
That's OK.
Holy cow. I never actually noticed that incubus was the opposite of succubus.
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Yup! 
I'm glad you liked it!
This is slightly unrelated but I'd like to make one of those "fake screenshots" someday.
Holy crap! *looks behind me and gets hit in the face by a frying pan that flies out of nowhere*
I actually typed up a bunch of Sirena's backstory that I had in my head today.Β Untitled Β
I could type up more, but I'm getting tired. I'd really like it if you could help me come up with a compelling-enough journey for her to take in order to reach the castle. (Or maybe the journey is not important?) By coincidence, or maybe plot, another thing that happens in 67 days is the royal ball. So, sort of Cinderella-inspired but not really. One idea that was floating through my mind is that Sirena is coerced by one of the girls (who is interested in the prince) to slip him a love potion or something, or she'll tell someone that a witch is planning to ruin the festivities, and that would mess up Sirena's plan to get to Agatha quietly. But for some reason, that idea just doesn't really "click" with me? I definitely want it to revolve around the royal ball, and I do love the idea of a witch hunt, but I just don't know what to do.
See, I'm actually not sure where I want to go with this! I'd like possibly something in-between? Like, it can have its sugary bits, but I don't want it to be a classic romance or something cheesy. I am partial to the idea of it being dark, but I also don't want it to be too dark. Not to mention, I recently came up with the idea that the prince was raised to hate witches. I mean, he can't have a heart of gold from the beginning, yeah?
Heh, I like that! Maybe their romance could be a tale of trust falls and being stabbed in the back. A deadly dance of sorts. But it all works out in the end! I've killed off too many love interests already! *side eyes Corbin and Ava, some of my other OCs*
Ahh, I've heard of those too! I kind like that idea, yeah. I've never worked with that kind of story before.
Right?? Recently, I got a promotional email from Square Enix that advertised maid and butler costumes for your FFXIV character. I was so tempted! But they'll be around forever, I guess, so I think I'll be fine. I don't even play that often anyway.
If we're talking about non-customizable characters too, Hajime Hinata from Danganronpa 2 is a fairly boring-looking protagonist. But, I actually think the developers had him designed like that for a reason...which I found really clever, if that was what they were doing.
How about "realms"? Would that work?
Haha.
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From what I hear, "I specialize in tragedy" is a great thing to put on your resume.
That's evil as hell.
...I approve.
Yeah, I can kinda see that.
"Fake screenshots"..?
I'd like to help, but I don't consider myself a writer. I'm not sure if there's anything you could get from me. But, let me read...
First, I would suggest reconsidering the name "Media" (unless it has a very specific reason to be named that). When I see that, I think media as in forms of communication. Even if I know it's a name, I think it would still be prone to making people think of something else entirely. Maybe change the spelling to something like Medea, Madia, Medya, etc. Although, Medea already seems to reference a character in myth and I don't know if you'd want people to possibly associate it with that or try to connect the character with your story.
Hm...that depends. What is the length/format of the story? A shorter story may not really need an elaborate journey. Are the destination and the events there significant enough to carry the story in place of the journey?
Your setup in the backstory is intriguing, but I think I'd have to know more to be able to make suggestions.
Why was it specified to get to the castle in 67 days? Is it specifically for the royal ball, or does the royal ball just happen to be in 67 days as well and it's unrelated as far as the kidnapper (or whoever wrote the message, if not a kidnapper) is concerned?
And what would happen if Sirena doesn't get there in time? What does the person who wrote the message really want?
I could make some suggestions, but I don't know if it's at all what you had in mind and could use:
Years have passed, times could be changing. Tension and prejudice against witches is dying down and more people are becoming more tolerant. They're even talking about reversing the decree to give witches more legal protection. Whoever took(?) Agatha doesn't like this.
He/she/they know of the panther beast in Sirena. They take Agatha to draw Sirena to the royal ball, where a bunch of big wigs and other high class members of society and people in power will be. They want to back Sirena into a corner and force the panther to come out and protect her. It will not look good for witches if Sirena (I forgot, is Sirena a witch? She's gotta be at least part-witch..??) unleashes this violent, powerful beast with all these important people around in this big social gathering.
Whether the panther has anything to do with the witches in the family or not is irrelevant. People will just see that someone, who happens to be a witch, has this scary power and they'll fear it. And whoever took Agatha can use that to twist it into something against all witches and bring that prejudice back within the society. People who have the power to reverse the decree will suddenly be in witness to the apparent danger of a witch. You could also get your witch hunt out of it.
Some alternate ideas or details:
The people that took Agatha are the same mob or connected to the same mob that the panther scattered all those years ago. Maybe there's some reason that the panther can't come out until another 67 days and they want to draw it out to try and kill it.
Though there are some considerations with that like how do they know it can't come out for 67 days, why can't it come out for 67 days, and if it's that long then why take Agatha so far in advance rather than waiting like 66 days later and just telling Sirena to come what would be "tomorrow"? I suppose you could say the opportunity just presented itself and they took it, rather than wait for later and maybe not get a good chance again.
It also doesn't really tie into the royal ball at all, or give a reason for why they want her to go to the castle specifically.
I don't know if the love potion idea is necessary. I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with it, but I mean if Sirena is already going to the castle on that day (or is it only by that day, and anything under 67 would still help her save Agatha?), does she need another reason to go?
I'd be careful with things like subplots and additional details and events and stuff. I don't know enough about what direction you want this to go to say if this applies to it or not, but just as a general statement: if something like a subplot doesn't add anything to the main story or develop any of the characters, I don't think it's a good idea to include it. It might pad things out or take focus away from the main story. Maybe think about it this way: would the main points of the story or characters be any different if the subplot weren't there?
I think some stories can get too muddied if there are too many unnecessary aspects or turns. A complicated story doesn't necessarily mean a good story, and a simple story doesn't necessarily mean a bad story. A lot of it depends on the execution of the ideas, no matter how many or how few there are.
I'm not saying not to include the love potion or something like it, but I just mean it should serve a good purpose rather than being there just to have more.
OK. How about the outcome itself of their potential love being in-between? They aren't a perfect couple nor are they separate. If the prince was raised to hate witches, it would be unrealistic for years of behaviour to be wiped away in such a short time and him just fully accepting her by the end of the story. Like leave it open that there's hope, but don't blatantly say either way how it will go?
I'm reminded of the end of the Prince of Persia movie (based on a game). Unless you haven't watched it, plan to, and don't want spoilers, read on:
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Here's the end scene.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=axIxeQβ¦
So you have context, the basic idea leading up to that end is that the prince invaded the princess' castle (or whatever) and stole a dagger that ended up having the power to rewind time. Evil plots are revealed, bad stuff happens, etc while the prince and princess go on a journey trying to set things right. The princess dies along the way. The prince gets to a point where he manages to rewind time back to the initial invasion that started this. Being the one having the dagger, the prince is the only one who retains memory of everything that happened. He uses this information to stop all the bad stuff before it really starts.
Then it's the end, where he sees the princess again. Since time was rewinded, it's only the prince that remembers the time they spent together.
Anyway, the point is it's just left open. Sure, of course it suggests that things will work between them, but it doesn't outright say it. It would be unrealistic since she just met him.
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Yeah, stuff like that.
Hmm, not familiar withΒ Hajime HinataΒ to comment on the possible reason they designed him like that. He does look rather plain, but I also think it works in that world at least. From what I've seen, the characters have pretty normal clothes overall. If he were too flashy, it might look out of place?
Realms works.
I only ever knew of Incubus as a band name! I never connected it with succubus!
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"Evil" is my middle name.
Fake screenshots....hmm. Something like this:Β fake screenshot for InsolitusD
I feel like they'd be fun to make.
For practice, sort of, I tried redrawing an existing screenshot last night. It was...an interesting exercise. I feel like I learned a lot.
I changed it to Medea.
To be honest, the backstory I showed you and the small paragraph on her personality (that I did not show you) are all I have of her character. You can tell I'm really bad at this.
You're right! If I make the events at the end of the journey significant enough...Hmm. I'll have to give it some thought.
That is...a very good question. I think that there is a specific reason it's on the same day as the royal ball.
*gasp* Ideas...Ideas are coming to me!
I could make the royal guard that helped Sirena's mother escape a bigger character than they currently are! Maybe...
Oh man, talking to you was definitely a good idea.
Suppose it was foretold in the stars that the destruction of the second Earth is coming? It'll devastate everything, and prepare the Earth for its third cycle...and yet, this world is still young, and there are people who know of this prophecy who believe it should be given more time to grow and develop. There is only one way to stop this apocalypse, and that is if a witch with the blood of....a god/demon (?) makes a blood sacrifice on the eve of the apocalypse, in a place where prejudice against her kind is the strongest, a place where she is hated the most. (I'm pulling all of this out of my ass, okay!Β Β This "blood of a god/demon" thing could elaborate more on Sirena's actual father, and could shed some light on why she, of all people, was chosen to represent the humans and demons of this world. Okay, demon it is, I guess!)
I'm thinking that the guard who helped the queen escape somehow knows about this prophecy, and was assigned his/her/their own role to play by someone else. Or maybe they're able to communicate with the Celestials (the other zodiac-like beings like the panther) directly.
Ahh, I see. Definitely no love potion then. It didn't feel right anyway. Especially now that we're going down this crazy prophecy path. I have absolutely no idea how the guard is going to get Sirena to fulfill her role once she gets there, but I'm sure we'll figure it out.
Yeah, I like that kind of vagueness! It could work. Maybe before witches were shunned by society, there was a position in the royal family, sort of like an adviser, that a sorcerer or witch would usually hold. Maybe once everything is resolved, she gets that place in the royal family, but stuff's still awkward between them. If we're going down the prophecy route, it's almost like she's earned a new beginning.
I can't specify why his design is so clever without spoiling the story, but I'd say you're wrong about outrageous outfits looking out of place in Danganronpa.
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Oh, that reminds me of a girl I knew in like grade 3 or so. She had a diabolical laugh and stare. Even I wasn't evil that young.
Ah, I see. Are you posting that screenshot thing you did?
I like reading about people's different interpretations of things, but I don't know about it if I were on the creator side. Like if I wrote something and then someone interprets it as something super deep and clever that I didn't intend at all, I'd probably feel bad that I didn't think of it myself and can't take credit for it.
Whether you intend to play/watch this yourself is irrelevant because I don't consider this a spoiler as it's not something that's confirmed in the game. But just in case, below is a theory about Final Fantasy VIII:
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There's a theory I really like regarding Final Fantasy VIII. It proposes the idea that Squall, the main character, dies partway through the game and the rest of the game onwards is actually a dream or fantasy he's having in the afterlife (or something to that effect). I find it really interesting (the theory itself has a lot more detail and analysis; that was just a brief summary), but I don't think for even one second that that was actually the developers' intent. It's just too obtuse and creative for me to think that they wrote it like that. If it had been real, it would've been an amazing twist in that the twist isn't even explicitly revealed to be there.
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Hey, I've had much less thought-out characters. I have characters so empty that I don't know what they're about or how to tell them apart personality-wise. Though, I made those characters when I was 10
Though if you're not going to elaborate on the journey itself, I would still consider if there's a way to write the journey out of it altogether. Like, is there a reason that the destination is so far (whether in time or in distance), that it wouldn't have the same effect for the character to just have to travel a shorter distance or wait a shorter amount of time for the events to happen?
"Oh man, talking to you was definitely a good idea."
Said no one to me ever, unless they had a sarcastic tone.
There you go. My work here is done.
*dusts hands as if he accomplished something, which he didn't*
Perhaps the guard helped them escape because he knows they need to live long enough to make the sacrifice on the eve of the apocalypse. Hope will be lost if they're dead before then. Is the blood sacrifice supposed to kill the person? Maybe the guard doesn't really care about Sirena and has only helped her so she would live to this point. By gaining her trust through all this time, he could trick her into it. Not that he's tricking her into something "traditionally" bad or selfish since it would supposedly save the world, but it's still deceptive at her expense.
But then why was the older witch taken?
You'll have to excuse me if everything I've been writing is geared toward evil plots and trickery. This is the only way my brain thinks.
Hm...I think Celestia and Kazuichi are still pretty reasonable designs. Like, they're not so out there and far removed from fairly regular clothing like I meant. When I say flashy, I mean like "typical JRPG hero" kind of flashy. Something more fantastical. I do like Gundham's design though.
Dinosaurs? Do dinosaurs play into the story??
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Oh damn. That's terrifying.
Yeah, eventually. Don't know how soon, though.
Once, someone pointed out something I wrote in a fanfiction and interpreted it as something deeper than I had originally intended. I told them that it wasn't my intention to write it like this, but it was cool how they saw it that way and I hadn't realized it could be interpreted that way.
That is a really cool theory!! I could connect this to this other game I liked that I've mentioned before, but I probably shouldn't because it's a major spoiler.
Hmmm......I'll share the doc I'm writing for Sirena with you through notes. Maybe you could give it a read and let me know if it's okay, or suggest new things to add? One thing I'm really bad at looking for is plot holes. It would really help me out!
Yeah, true, their designs are pretty reasonable. I still like how you can typically figure out a character's personality in Danganronpa just through their clothing.
Gundham is great. You'd think he'd be talented in something amazing or powerful based on how he acts, but all he really does is breed hamsters.
Nope.
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I've had my brother mention stuff like that too. People will say something about what they saw in or interpreted his work as and he likes when he hears stuff that he didn't think about or intend. But me, I just can't imagine I'd take it as well. I'd hate to have overlooked a really cool idea like that.
Is this other game you could connect it to a game I said I might like to play myself...?
I'm bad at looking for plot holes too. I've probably played a bunch of games that people say have plot hols and I probably didn't notice while I was playing them myself.
These aren't really holes, but rather opportunities to elaborate on story points and maybe make things more cohesive and natural. Speaking solely on personal preference, I'm not generally big on prophecies by themselves. I feel they sometimes come off as too convenient, just there for the sake of the story. But again, that's just me. It's not "wrong" to do otherwise, but I'm just the kind of person that usually likes having explanations for why things are, rather than them just being there and not questioned or explained.
I think it would be better if the prophecies have basis for why they state what they state. You could consider writing other points of the story into this basis, to develop the points further and tie them together.
-How did the King find out his wife was a witch?
-Does Sirena's father, the unknown man, have a role? Like, is there a reason the story has Medea be with another man, or would everything go exactly the same even without that since the King would still be after her for being a witch?
-Why are witches the target of prejudice?
-How does Sirena have demon blood (or does that just mean witch blood?)?
-Is there a significance to Edward and Agatha giving her 67 days?
For example, maybe there were historical records from when the planet was already on the brink of destruction a long time ago. They talk about a human/demon blood hybrid (a witch? I'm not sure I'm understanding your definition) who was killed in the throne room or some other place of royal importance/connection (not even necessarily this same castle) over something entirely unrelated to the Earth's destruction and after that, the Earth happened to start recovering from its decline.
Rather than being a public document, maybe this was a confidential record only for royalty or certain members of the castle or something like that. Or maybe it's a presented as the journal of a previous King or royalty, recounting the events. Maybe the previous King (or someone close and able to advise him or something) equated this death or bloodshed of the hybrid/witch as some sort of sacrifice that reversed the destruction. Could've been a really superstitious person or something.
He passes this on to his successor and/or other high-ranking members of the castle so that they can keep this going should destruction come again. They keep this information secret so that it doesn't spread, especially among witches. If witches found out that this is what the King believed, they could rise against him. At the same time though, they need an excuse to have witches killed if the apparent need arises again, or else it'll just look bad for them to kill for seemingly no reason or for witches to be disappearing. They also couldn't just outright allow mass killing/hunting of witches either though because they might need them later.
So maybe they, or someone discreetly hired by the Kingdom, start fabricating stories of witches or placing them in unfavourable light to lower their status in society or somewhat villify them (and this is where the prejudice began). Then if they need to sacrifice again, society won't object to having them killed or for witches to go mysteriously missing. The killing needs to be under the guise of something more believable; if they say it's for a sacrifice to reverse or pre-empt destruction, it sounds kinda...kooky. They never even proved the witch sacrifice is what saved the planet. Maybe it was just a coincidence, and that previous King was superstitious or grasping for some sort of explanation.
There are still other things to consider though. Is it a coincidence or not? If it isn't, what is it about the sacrifice that saves the planet? If it is a coincidence, what really saved the planet?
I have other ideas and considerations to tie some of your points into this, but I won't go ahead with them unless you actually want to consider this first rough idea of a basis.
And some things I'm wondering:
-If Edward and Agatha are behind this, what actual opposition will Sirena face? If they need her there, it can't be them that attempts stopping her in any way.
-I'm also unsure what the blood sacrifice involves. Is it supposed to kill the person making the sacrifice?
-How does Sirena come to the conclusion of a blood sacrifice? If Edward and Agatha are only able to push her a bit, how does the rest of the information come to her?
I'm giggling because that's so close to "Gundam" and now all I'm picturing is giant mechs playing with hamsters.
Maybe he's breeding hamsters in pursuit of some sort of new super race of hamsters that will grant him great power and authority later.
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Oh, well...The game in question was Detention.
Mmm, I see! To be honest, I never really got the opportunity to keep working on Sirena's story...but I really wanted to respond to this comment, haha. So I screenshotted the comment and saved it elsewhere so I can come back to it someday when I have more time/energy! You make a lot of excellent points that I hadn't thought about, and I think that's a really good thing.
You know...that...actually sounds like something Gundham would do! And, well, Gundam is also an alternative but also accurate spelling of his name.
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I'm glad if it helped.
I tend to obsess over some stuff and overthink things. When it comes to fiction, if I really care about the story, I always have to find an explanation for everything. Like a reason why something happened or is the way it is, rather than just accepting the fact or event on its surface and leaving it at that. I read so much supplementary stuff with some games...
For example, when I started getting more serious about my own characters, I couldn't just give them special powers. I had to think about how those special powers actually work (I mentioned the general physics of it to you before).
That way of thinking probably helped me ask questions like that.
I sometimes go back to things I wrote a while ago and just wonder what made me write that. Like, I can't say I've ever said "Maybe he's breeding hamsters in pursuit of some sort of new super race of hamsters that will grant him great power and authority later" any other time.
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That's really cool! I don't usually do that, but I do feel a sort of emptiness if I go through a game and it just presents stuff for no reason at all...
Yeah! I think you could consider that method of "overthinking" a gift, of sorts. Makes your characters more interesting if there's a reason for their powers and the like. You know, when I was 10 or so, I actually wrote like, a 30-page story about some girls that find a portal and through that, manage to find a different world. (It was...really bad. Like, I cannot read it anymore, that's how bad it was.) Issue was, I never explained why the portal was there or how they never came across it before the story took place.....it was weird.
Haha, true.
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Out of the hundreds of games I've played over the years, I've only extensively looked up information for probably less than 10 of them or so. So it's not something that comes up regularly, but it's something special when a game interests me enough to make me dig so deep and understand it.
Hmm, sometimes it's helpful but sometimes my overthinking drives me crazy.
Not necessarily in the context of creating characters, but maybe other stuff in general. Needing an answer and an understanding to everything sometimes consumes me and my time.
Ahh, but you were 10. Would you expect someone that age to write a good story? I wouldn't. I don't mean that a 10-year-old can't, but just that I would easily excuse it if the person didn't.
I still have the comics I did when I was 10. I wrote some stupid stuff for sure and I probably didn't explain much of it either.
At least the portal thing seems like something you could easily detail if you wanted to but just overlooked doing so. It's not like it's a contradiction, conflicting with other things already in the story.
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Yeah, I get that. I once spent several hours extensively Googling, looking for this one music video that I had a vague memory of that-- probably didn't exist. :/
Huh...I just noticed I have fewer notifications than I'm supposed to...? Did something happen to your comments? I think I might be missing a couple notifications. Weird. It's driving me nuts, what happened to them? DA please...Did I respond and just forget?
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The video still could've existed, but it's just that it can be hard to find something again if you don't have much to go on. There's a music video I tried to find once too. I never found it, but I know I'm not imagining it.
Do you have a description of the video you were trying to find? Any details like the possible artist, the lyrics, the visuals, ..?
It happened to you too?? Yeah, I did lose one of your replies. It just vanished from my notifications. I had to go look for the image it was in and get the reply from there. Fortunately it didn't take long since I remembered most of the images I had commented on.
So you may be missing some replies, but don't worry about it! I don't want to dump too much text on you and take up too much of your time. I'm surprised you've kept up this long, since most people stop really quickly.
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Hmm....true!
I know nothing about the artist or lyrics, but I think it was a guy trying to audition for a vocal...thing? And he auditioned by singing and flirting/trying to dance with the girl in charge, who seemed annoyed but by the end she'd gotten into it.
I didn't remember which posts the replies were on, unfortunately. I just knew the number was lower than it should've been....ack. Ah, well...
Hey, our conversations are really fun. I wish I had more to say sometimes, or the energy to reply more often, but I really do enjoy them.
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Hmm, I don't think I've seen that video. It gives me pop/punk/rock-type vibes though from like 2000-2010 or so. Like, I've seen some of those kinds of bands do videos along those lines...just not that exact one as far as I recall.
That's nice to hear.
If you ever want to stop though, feel free to say so. I don't want to make someone feel obligated to do something they don't want to.
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Interesting...that DOES sound like something I'd have listened to at the time, yeah.
Hmm...maybe shorter responses? I've had trouble focusing long enough to write out longer replies, unfortunately, but I really would like to keep talking, since I enjoy our convos!
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There were a lot of bands like that around that time. Naming them off probably wouldn't narrow it down much for you since there were quite a few (even just out of the ones I'm familiar with).
I kinda miss that genre now. I don't hear it much anymore.
OK, I reduced the font size. Now the response is shorter in height.
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Ahaha, fair enough. Maybe I'll find it someday.
LOL NICE (high fives you)
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I love it, Eric! You are a true artist not only in your skill, but your search for perfection.Β I think you are being too hard on yourself with this piece. I like the thought and logic you put into the creation of it, too.Β The many scars are a great addition, and are a counterpoint to the "pin up" quality that you found in a lot of the other art featuring this character. She looks weathered and fierce, and you captured those qualities extremely well!
Thank you for doing this!Β
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I can't help it. I always pick over problems, both big and small, especially when I spend time trying to correct them and still don't actually succeed.
I'm glad you think so. I don't mind a pin-up in itself, but I like to have logic for the specific character. Aside from that though, I also wanted to do something less common.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm glad you like it.
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We're all cursed with some level of perfectionism. I was sitting next to an artist in a local exhibit where she and I both had works on display, and she burst in tears without warning! I asked her what was the matter and she replied, "I hate my paintings." I reminded her that I had bought one of her pieces years earlier and that it was hanging on my wall at home. She was a sweet woman in her 80s.Β So...we all go through some degree of picking apart our stuff!
I like pin-up art but there is a proper context for everything and your approach to this piece is well judged!
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