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notwilwheaton In reply to cmjohnson65 [2014-10-17 13:17:47 +0000 UTC]

As my ex girlfriend explained to me AT LENGTH, unicorns have pretty much always been portrayed with cloven hooves. They're the exception to the rule.

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Nukilik In reply to notwilwheaton [2014-10-17 15:13:01 +0000 UTC]

It depends on who's portraying it. Like most mythical creatures, there are thousands of ideas and representations of unicorns and simmilar beings.

In MLP, they're portrayed with normal hooves.

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TwiWrite-Flare In reply to Nukilik [2014-10-18 02:47:48 +0000 UTC]

(Not being snarky/not being mean, just stating my own observations)

Hardly anyone but Iron Will and Tirek are portrayed with "normal" hooves in MLP.  The overly simplified character models in the show are hardly the end all be all when it comes to artistic license (unless you'd honestly like to believe that Fluttershy and pre-alicorn Twilight have the exact same body types as two of the greatest athletes in Equestria).

As you said, styles and tastes vary; however, the most common depictions of unicorns have cloven hooves (just like the most common depictions of western style dragons give them cat-like bodies with legs positioned directly underneath of them rather than splayed out to the side like true reptiles).  There's nothing wrong with an artist depicting them in the more traditional unicorn design with the cloven hooves.

My personal headcanon states that the ponies of Equestria have a completely different style of hoof than anything found on Earth.  I like to think that they can harden it or soften it at will via complex muscle contractions (having more natural control over the front hooves than the rear hooves).

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Nukilik In reply to TwiWrite-Flare [2014-10-18 08:27:19 +0000 UTC]

I don't...?

I never said they were? I was just pointing out that unicorns don't have cloven hooves in the show to make the point that various stories portray them differently... but I WASN'T implying there was anything wrong with artist portraying them a traditional cloven-hoofed way either. So sorry if it came off that way?

I was trying to imply that there was no wrong way to do it since mythology varies so much.

As for body type, I almost never see artists portraying AJ or RD as overly muscular compared to the others. Whether that's because in the show's style there's little difference, because it takes away from the cute factor or because portraying muscular body types in equines can be a little tricky, I wouldn't know.

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TwiWrite-Flare In reply to Nukilik [2014-10-18 17:08:44 +0000 UTC]

It's no problem ^_^ I was just throwing in my two cents on the subject.  It seems that I misunderstood what you were originally saying.

On the body type issue, most artists portray the characters almost exactly as they are in the show (and there is nothing wrong with that).  But I've seen lots of artists try to draw them in a more realistic style (like this) and almost all of THOSE artists portray AJ as being larger and more muscular than her friends, RD being significantly smaller with a sprinter's skinny, but powerful body, and Fluttershy being about as tall as AJ but always hunkered down making her look much smaller than she actually is.  
The main six were initially planned to have unique body type all their own, but it just wasn't a possibility back when the show was first starting up due to limited resources and time.  Even Big Mac doesn't look THAT muscular; he's just bigger than the others and that's what they just had to go with.  Even he's just a recycled royal guard body type.

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Nukilik In reply to TwiWrite-Flare [2014-10-18 17:46:11 +0000 UTC]

I see. I thought it was more a matter of style, after all you said it yourself: it's in the more realistic styled pieces that one usually sees the muscular tone and the more nuanced differences in size. A cartoony style doesn't bother much with that and tends to simplify things as much as possible, and that's fine.

I also never knew the main six were initially planned to have a different body type? Where did you find out about that? 

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TwiWrite-Flare In reply to Nukilik [2014-10-18 19:29:41 +0000 UTC]

I think that we are pretty much saying the same thing, but in different ways.  No, the show never planed on having AJ or Rainbow Dash be ripped in comparison to their friends (or Big Mac for that matter).  However, Lauren Faust as stated that she would have liked for them each to have their own unique character models to represent them having different body types, but she knew that that was an unrealistic and very unlikely thing to get to happen in those early days.  
Nowadays, new pony body types are popping up all over the place because the shows resources are better than back during the pilot episodes.  If they had had the freedoms that they have now, Fluttershy or Rarity could have very likely ended up with the Fleur de Lis body type instead of the more common average body types found in the show.  Each on the main cast would have looked entirely unique and not just pallet swaps of one another.  They would have likely remained cute and wouldn't be defined with crazy streamlined muscle (despite the fact that AJ and RD likely would be if viewed in real life), but they would definitely have had body types that would look more appropriate to their personalities.

In stead of doing that though, the creators were forced to use other methods of effectively communicating their differences.  For example, Applejack is made out of hard, earthy colors (making her naturally look larger when compared side by side with Rainbow Dash's darker blue and sharp rainbow shades).  You can sort of see the differences when they put their hooves together for a hoof bump.  To further emphasize AJ's intended size, they gave her that huge hat that takes up so much of her character model and her hair is bound up with those hair ties so that it sort of bunches up in big, rounded shapes (sort of like muscles).

Fluttershy's tallness is emphasized through her long hair that goes all the way to the ground, traveling down along her legs almost like a built in measuring stick.  The fact that she is made up of bright Eastery colors effectively does the same job as AJ's colors do for her.  What keeps her from looking too big and bulky (being made of even brighter colors than AJ) is that long hair that sort of draws your eyes in an up and down pattern when looking at her as opposed to AJ who is just meant to look big in general.

These same differences can be seen in all of the main cast (and any character in the show really).  Pinkie's big poofy hair makes her look flufier and slightly pudgier (more cuddly ^_^) than the others.  Rarity's white body with super dark purple, swirling hair makes her look like calligraphy on canvass (fancy and sharp; the transition between the bright white and the dark purple is meant to POP [attention grabbing]), ect.

These are just a few observation that I've picked up on when trying to learn how to draw them myself and from a few meager college courses on the subject of cinema interpretation so I could be entirely wrong.  All I know is that animators and cartoon designers generally have their minds on much more than what is immediately obvious when they are crafting their character models.  They use visual and aesthetic ques to sort of cast mind games on the audience to communicate things on a subconscious level.  These are short cuts and "cheats" that allow them to utilize every tool at their disposal to get meaning across with as little expenditure of resources as possible.

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Nukilik In reply to TwiWrite-Flare [2014-10-18 20:15:59 +0000 UTC]

Really cool observations on how the differences in the ponies were made to reflect their personalities. Nice!

We did see new pony body types pop up as seasons went by. And the new resourses are probably the reason why (as well as just a natural progression for a succesful show) Even though most of the new models are weird to picture in the mane 6 in now XD

Of couse, there are also the particularities of working with flash (where you can use shortcuts), the style of the show itself, and the fact that the show is meant to sell toys that all play influence in decisions like this.

You know? One of the things I like doing as seasons go by is figuring at all the small new improvements and tricks the animators get to try as the show grows. Can't wait to see if season 5 will set any new standards for what the the show's animation can do  ^^

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TwiWrite-Flare In reply to Nukilik [2014-10-18 20:42:11 +0000 UTC]

Oh, I have no doubt that it will ^_^  Every season has taken a significant jump in quality within the animation.  Season two noticed a lot more animation happening in general (hair effects, character movements, ect.), season three seemed to focus on fantastic and beautiful new locations (the Crystal Empire, the deep wilderness, Rainbow Falls, and those spooky Canterlot back alleys), and season four seemed to throw some definite emphasis on new lighting techniques and special effects (the magic casting has gradually become absolutely beautiful to watch; heck, some of Twilight's laser blasts looked cooler than their DBZ inspiration).  I can't wait to see what they are going to implement next!
^_^

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Nukilik In reply to TwiWrite-Flare [2014-10-18 20:53:17 +0000 UTC]

That's exactly what I mean! From doing new things with the rigs, to new expressions to fancy new lighting techniques and effects

This was a really fun talk, you know? It seems you're interested in the technical side of animation and know your stuff so.. high five! Or should I say brohoof? Whatever, you get it XD

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TwiWrite-Flare In reply to Nukilik [2014-10-18 23:49:13 +0000 UTC]

^_^ Same to you friend!

Brohoof /)

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Nukilik In reply to TwiWrite-Flare [2014-10-18 23:54:28 +0000 UTC]

/)

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pegadron123 In reply to cmjohnson65 [2014-10-17 11:59:49 +0000 UTC]

They are magical ponies so the rule don't matter

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