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Exfodes — Spiritual Attack
#yukari_yakumo #touhou_project #walfas_comic #undertale #chara_undertale
Published: 2017-07-17 15:10:48 +0000 UTC; Views: 4306; Favourites: 32; Downloads: 6
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Description
Aka, why Touhou is better. In terms of character toughness, that is. Youkai are extremely resistant to physical attacks, requiring spiritual attacks to exterminate them. And even them, they don't seem to stay exterminated. Unlike the monsters of the underground, where not having physical mass meant that they are vulnerable to murder intent. Touhou youkai easily eat humans for breakfast and required skilled magic and spiritual powers to deal with, in contrast to the Undertale monsters whose entire population can be wiped out by a single determined child. Well, to be fair, a demonic one. But our bloodline descendant maiden also deals with demons on a daily basis.Which brings up something I wanted to point out, that most people seem to ignore. Comparing who would win in a fight from two different franchises without any context is disingenuous at best. Let's use our little fallen child and some monstrous Japanese phenomena as examples. In the underground, Frisk have the ability to save and reset due to their determination, which is something monsters lack. This allows the fourth wall to not exist and create unique game play. However, we also know that Flowey's save ability was neutralized by Frisk's due to the latter's greater determination. Which brings up a question: on the surface, where billions of determined humans live, would Frisk's (or Chara's) abilities even work? Bring them to Gensokyo, a place full of humans with abilities and youkai with unique physiology, can they even scratch them? Inversely, the Great Hakurei Barrier is a logic barrier that protects the youkai from losing influence due to the outside world's increasing lack of faith in the supernatural. Take a youkai to the Undertale underground, and do they start losing power? If people start questioning them, to they disappear in a puff of logic? Place our child and our youkai in a neutral arena with no determination and no faith, and are we going to devolve into a sissy catfight?
By the way, in LoLK Erin gave the protagonist Ultramarine Orb Elixir, which basically gave you save and reset on crack. Imagine a pointdevice 2hu fighting save/reset Frisk/Chara. We won't get anywhere anytime soon.
Touhou belongs to
Walfas made by
Create.swf Extended made by
Undertale Custom made by
P.S. In the real game, Frisk attacks by slicing vertically once per turn. I don't know how that turned into super acrobatic Jedi Chara in fan animations.
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Comments: 24
*Reads Description*
Glad I'm not the only one that thinks this way. I generally like looking at crossovers at a neutral point of view to begin with. See what laws, rules, and physics each one has, and how they might apply to each other. In other words exfodes, I agree with your views on this crossover.
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The beginning was totally some black romance thing from Homestuck. I can picture Karkat saying that.
Also, if you wanna get technical, Chara, Asriel and the Annoying Dog (who are the 3 strongest characters in Undertale by far) are only 4 dimensional. Yukari for example is literally beyond the concept of dimension. Saying the difference between them is of an infinity is a massive understatement. Even being infinity^infinity of times superior to Chara would only make you infinite dimensional. But Yukari is far beyond even that since dimensions mean nothing for her. That's... simply not really possible to compare them.
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Have you ever tried to grab a knife and swing it straight down from overhead? How about repeatedly, like they do at the end of Genocide?
Who swings a knife, or any weapon for that matter, like that? Yo, Chara! You ever thought to, oh let's say, swing it horizontally? Like a normal person?!
On the topic of the attack's nature, though, in many worlds containing magic, emotions often times have a strong connection to said magic. Eg, if someone is really angry, it may amplify a spell's damage output. If a white mage is holding onto strong feelings of love/care, their healing spells may have a stronger effect, etcetera. Chara being in a world of magic, having a knife coated in remains of purely(?) magical creatures and having ties to the afterlife, thus having a stronger spiritual connection to the soul, it may very well be possible that Chara's knife could deal non-physical damage if fueled by enough hatred, sort of like Pokemon move that makes contact, despite being a Special Attack.
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That's actually a pretty good point, I CONSTANTLY forget that Youkai have pretty heavy physical resistance.
In regard to the "super acrobatic Jedi Chara/Frisk" stuff it's due to all of the dodging everything. Probably.
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Everyone wonders why that touhou and undertale are a good matches for each other.
Truth is, they aren't.
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Weaponizing Meta is cool and all but it's not the first time fourth walls has been shattered before. But yeah Chara stands no chance in UT
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Well I mean there is the part where Chara literally 1-shots - greatly overkills, even - the entire universe. There is definitely that.
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Destroying a timespace continuum is ridiculous compared to what Yukari can do.
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Yeah, I looked that up, and I'm not buying it. Not to mention your other comment.
are only 4 dimensional. - This right here is the INSTANT I stopped taking you seriously. The moment you start talking about dimensions like they're power levels... ugh.
Yukari for example is literally beyond the concept of dimension. Saying the difference between them is of an infinity is a massive understatement. - Yeah yeah, boundaries. By your logic Chara's also beyond the 'concept of dimension' as growing power.
And 'infinity is a massive understatement'?! Do you even hear yourself saying this nonsense?
Even being infinity^infinity of times superior to Chara would only make you infinite dimensional. But Yukari is far beyond even that since dimensions mean nothing for her. That's... simply not really possible to compare them. - Oh my fucking... Please take a math course.
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So you're telling me having one more dimensional axis doesn't make you infinitely stronger ? You're telling me a 2 dimensional object can exist in our world ? Genius.
Where did i mention boundaries ? Also where is Chara's feat proving he's beyond the concept of dimension ? Yukari can annihilate all of Gensokyo which contains its own concept of dimension. I doubt Chara can say the same.
There are degrees of infinity in vs debating. Infinity 3D power is trash.
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Let me explain this sloooowly, because I am clearly talking to a child. Let's say I, a 3D person, walk up to Flatland, a 2D realm, and look down into it. Then, I take my index finger and push it into Flatland.
From a Flatlander's perspective, they only see an expanding circle, a 2D cross section of my finger. This cross section has width and length, but no thickness at all; in mathematical terms it is not 0% of me, but an infinitesimal part of me.
All the same, if the Flatlander Vikings come by and try to attack my finger's cross section, they will not succeed in harming me at all. Maybe a Flatlander Mage comes by and chants a spell to hit me, in 3D land, with a fireball, that will hurt me, but that's a 3D attack.
So... what happens if I try to hit them? You are suggesting that being 1 dimension high than the flatlanders makes me infinitely stronger, right? So if I pull my finger out of Flatland, then push it back in on the inside of a Flatlander Viking, then the cross-section of my finger growing within them should make the Flatlander Viking explode apart with infinite force.
Except that makes no sense. It violates several conservation laws, and more importantly, it violates how vectors work. The cross-section of my finger would 'expand' within the Flatlander Viking with finite force, and their own 2D insides would push back on me. Indeed, it may very well be that the Flatlander's insides push on my finger's cross-section harder and crush it.
And! AND! This is assuming I'm not made of particles at all, but rather an even spread of 'mass' that fills the full integral of my being, which is nonsense. When you factor this in, a 2D Flatlander and 3D me may very well be completely intangible to each other.
Where did i mention boundaries ? - Aren't those her powers? Or am I looking at the wrong Yukari, genius?
Also where is Chara's feat proving he's beyond the concept of dimension ? - You know, the whole 'incarnation of growing power'. That's not my logic though, that's just following yours.
all of Gensokyo which contains its own concept of dimension. - Hey, here's a question. Let's say I have a character whose reality warping powers lets them make 1+1=3. Are they more powerful and unbound by math? NO! It just means I'm a shit writer! Everything follows math, even if you write it otherwise. Same concept here.
There are degrees of infinity in vs debating. - Oh my fucking god you can't be serious. That's not how infinity works, despite what the Aleph Null people try to tell you.
Infinity 3D power is trash. - Repeat after me, kiddo: "Dimensions are not power levels."
Repeat that until you get it through your head. If you feel you need the 'last word' go ahead; I'll just ignore it. I've said all I have to say.
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Please don't look down on people if you're going to display such a ridiculous level of ignorance.
To continue with your Flatland example, you said yourself that "This cross section has width and length, but no thickness at all; in mathematical terms it is not 0% of you, but an infinitesimal part of you". Basically, this part of you doesn't exist from your own perspective. It have no mass. Which also means that from its perspective, and the perspective of any 2 dimensional structure, your mass is infinite. Infinite mass basically means infinity kinetic energy, thus, infinite power. And if the axis you have that the 2 dimensional structure doesn't have is its perception of time, it means infinite speed as well, as you'd be able to "walk back in time" from its perspective, at will.
If you're another one of these people being mad at "dimensional tiering" because "it's just something people made up to downplay DBZ", i recommend you stop debate about characters above multi-galactic level, as that's basically the only way we have to quantify them.
Yuuka's power is flower manipulation, she's far superior to Suika who have density manipulation. Abilities and power level are two completely different things.
So every character in fiction that was once stated to have growing power is outerversal now ? Kek. And no i never used such a logic lmfao, the strawman is strong here.
Ooooh, so there is no such thing as being beyond the concept of dimension ? I guess The One Above All is restricted to a dimensional scale then. Wew. That's called being beyond scientific definition. You probably never heard of it...
It is how it works. Something that's infinite on a 2 dimensional scale can be finite on a 3 dimensional one. Imagine an object with infinite height and width, but finite depth. Put it in a world where depth doesn't exist. It's omnipresent, infinite. Put it in our world. For all we know it could exist and we didn't find it yet because of how far away from the observable universe it is. Now, imagine if it have no depth at all. It would still be infinite on a 2 dimensional scale, but it wouldn't even EXIST in our world. There are degrees of infinity.
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More like annihilate the fourth wall. Different games have stronger fourth walls.
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No, she definitely destroys the universe. That's what Sans explains he's trying to stop, after all; he's fighting in genocide because he's desperate to stop the imminent end of existence.
There is zero way around this; Chara 1-shots the universe.
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Yeah. Which is why Chara neesed to sneak in Frisk's body in order to bypass the barrier. Yeah totes. If Chara couldve done that from the start then there would be no need for fancy give me your soul talk.
And once again UT is a very meta game. The 'universe' it destroyed is very questionable considering how mets it is.
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What? You're not making any sense. Chara never bypasses the Barrier. We get to the throne room, Frisk auto-kills Asgore and Flowey (Note, Frisk, not Chara, there's a proof I won't get into) and then Chara manifests. In genocide, we never even SEE the Barrier.
Once Chara manifests, she gives the whole 'I am the very physical manifestation of grinding for stats, now let's erase this world and move on to the next'. And then, whether you agree to or not, Chara destroys Undertale. Genocide gives her that ability.
It might be tempting to say Chara does not destroy the universe, but rather just kills Frisk. Or that she only destroys the Underground. Both of these claims are PROVABLY false. The proof is twofold.
1) In the destroyed-world where you need to wait 10 minutes, you cannot load out of it, like you could if Chara really were 'just' killing Frisk. It cannot be that Chara is blocking outr ability to load, because Chara admits that she has no DT of her own. This suggests we cannot load because there is no past to load to.
2) The other proof is Sans. In the fight with him, he explains why he's fighting; because he's seen that the timelines, in the near future, 'suddenly, everything ends'. It's why he 'knowing what happens next, can't afford not to care anymore'. It's why he accuses us of 'You'll just keep consuming timelines over and over'.
If it were as simple as Chara killing us, Sans would have not stepped in. If it were as simple as Chara destroying the Underground, he still would not have stepped in, because hey, it'll just load, right?
SO THEN! Why does Chara ask for our soul?
She says it outright. Chara wants us to move on to 'other worlds'. But when we load up the destroyed-Undertale and wait for 10 minutes, she says it's curious we want to go back to this world. So she offers us a deal. You scratch my back I'll scratch yours. You want Undertale back so badly? Fine, then give me your soul. That's it. That's all it is. Chara destroys the universe WHETHER OR NOT we sell our souls. Hell, selling it is the ONLY way to convince Chara to recreate the universe.
There's no 'meta makes it questionable'. The characters in the game FULLY AND BLATANTLY STATE what's going on.
Tl;dr - You're objectively wrong. I don't say so; canon says so.
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Just realized you're the same guy wanking UT for awhile. Even commented on my UT matchup. Anyway at that everything you just said becomes mook.
Let me put this on terms you can understand.
The reason why Undertale is so strong is because of the rules and mechanics made up. Remove those rules and they are nothing. The rules of Chara can destroy everything with an attack does not apply to another verse. Why? Because it only applies to their fragile little verse. How would you even apply video game mechanics to an anime or comics series?
Regardless now that I know you're the same guy who loves UT too much I'm not gonna argue much considering a good chunk of the franchise could care less about power levels when there's something more quality about such a franchise. And I doubt you'd agree to logic so I'm just gonna let you wank Undertale then. Pisses me off that UT's fandom can be worse than FNAF with people like you.
Anyway goodbye and may we never cross paths again.
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"Even commented on my UT matchup. Anyway at that everything you just said becomes mook." - Well I mean except for the part where everything I said is canon.
"Remove those rules and they are nothing. The rules of Chara can destroy everything with an attack does not apply to another verse." - What? You're not making sense. So Chara is strong in Undertale because Chara is strong in Undertale because Chara is strong in Undertale. Well fuck, apply that to ANYTHING ELSE, moron,
So basically you've just confirmed 'I don't like it that this game has two characters far more powerful than the rest of the characters it has and will call anyone proving it a wanker instead of trying to disprove it'.
I agree. May we never cross paths again. Fucking moron.
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'Headcanon' that everyone hates you for probs
Literally you repeat what I avoid to do but end up worse, wowzah!
I confirmed not just that you love this character so much that you insult everyone, but also that you are indeed a dumbass who has too much time on the internet~
Hmhm~Your welcome moron~
2static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Cha…
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gotta love peeps like this
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Are you still here? Isn't it past your bedtime?
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Put Frisk in a room full of determined humans, and they lose the ability to save. Remove a youkai from the safety of Gensokyo, and she begins to fade away.
That is the biggest problem with crossovers. Each universe have different rules that govern how it works, yet that is ignored and thrown away once people start trying to find reasons to prove that their character is more powerful than the other. Put every single franchise in the real world, and you will find that real life physics is a party pooper. Can a Jedi still use the force if he is no longer in a galaxy far away? Can The Doctor travel through time if there was no Time Lords to create the time vortex? Can little ponies still influence the weather if they are no longer in Equestria? These questions and more have no straightforward answers. I wrote about this stuff in the description of this artwork.
In the end, we will all call each other wankers trying to prove how characters that don't exist are somehow better than others.
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