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DemonicFury5678 In reply to jesusgirl415 [2023-09-23 19:29:38 +0000 UTC]

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Deactivated1234 In reply to TheLordBobert [2015-06-25 23:03:49 +0000 UTC]

www.christiananswers.net/q-gra…

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Alejandro13Tx In reply to TheLordBobert [2015-05-07 00:41:55 +0000 UTC]

He only forgives people who asks him for it.

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KantiaCartography In reply to Alejandro13Tx [2015-05-16 21:32:20 +0000 UTC]

I disagree with this. Most Christians would define their god as "all-merciful" or possessing "infinite mercy". They would also claim that non-Christians "send themselves to Hell" by not accepting Jesus as their lord and savior, because the Christian god only extends his mercy to those who ask for forgiveness. In my opinion, this does not follow.

I see two possibilities. 

Possibility #1 is that god only extends his mercy to those who ask for forgiveness, because he is incapable of forgiving them otherwise. In this case, his mercy is limited only to those who ask for it and cannot be infinite. A god who is absolutely incapable of extending his mercy to everyone is not "all-merciful" and is limited in his actions.  

Possibility #2 is that god only extends his mercy to those who ask for forgiveness, because that is the price that he has set arbitrarily. In this case, his mercy may indeed be infinite in capacity, but he has chosen to only extend it to those who fulfill his wishes. If god wanted to, he could extend his infinite mercy to everyone, because there is no sin too heinous for an infinite amount of forgiveness to overcome. Not even Lucifer's. An "all-merciful" god who puts a price on forgiveness is making his own choice and is capable of changing his mind. Every time someone chooses whether or not to ask for forgiveness, this god has his own choice to make. To withhold his mercy or extend it, regardless of whether or not the person chooses to ask for it. 

In either case, god's mercy is either limited, in which case god is limited, or his mercy is arbitrary, in which case asking for forgiveness is arbitrary. 

And then there is the claim that the Christian god is also "all-just" and must keep a balance between "perfect mercy" and "perfect justice". This is ridiculous, of course. Mercy is the demonstration of compassion, forgiveness, or clemency towards an offender. Punishment and consequence are an inherent part of justice. How can someone claim that "infinite mercy" is compatible with "perfect justice" when mercy requires the temporary suspension of justice in order to manifest? An "all-just" being would be incapable of mercy, because the instant they demonstrated one ounce of clemency towards an offender their justice will have been limited. 

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VonRabenherz In reply to KantiaCartography [2015-06-23 15:29:23 +0000 UTC]

Indeed.

Of course, christians would then go and claim that perfect mercy and perfect justice may seem incompatible but their god is a special case where that isn't true, because he sent his son to die for the sins of everyone, yadda yadda yadda.
Which is a story that comes with its own problems and paradoxes yet again, but oh well ... christians seem to be extremely good at rationalizing away impossibilities.

Come to think of it, omniscience and omnipotence are also incompatible.
But then, I've recently had a christian tell me that this only seems so to me because my mind is limited and therefore I limit their god, and since my mind can't possibly comprehend their god, it's my mind that is at fault and responsible for the apparent paradox.

Yeah. Sure.

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KantiaCartography In reply to VonRabenherz [2015-07-04 04:39:35 +0000 UTC]

Being rather young (starting my first semester of college this fall), I still have the unfortunate task of attending sermons with my family every Sunday at our local Southern Baptist church. Lately, the pastor has been emphasizing the importance of the "blood of Jesus Christ" and the "cleansing of our souls". The longer I'm an atheist, the more and more I start to separate my "everyday life" from the practices and beliefs of Christianity. From the inside, you would never know that you were part of a delusional blood-cult, but looking around now, I can see why everyone else thinks Christians are out of their minds. 

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Deactivated1234 In reply to Shawntheimmortal94 [2015-02-21 01:20:13 +0000 UTC]

Now why would you say that?

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VonRabenherz In reply to Deactivated1234 [2015-06-23 15:31:34 +0000 UTC]

Sorry for barging in, but ... I think the same way, and I'd say that because that is how the bible describes your god.
He also forgot racist, bigoted, misogynistic, hateful, jealous, murderous and small-minded.

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Deactivated1234 In reply to VonRabenherz [2015-06-23 21:17:45 +0000 UTC]

The way that you speak of him, only describes YOU as just that. Calling someone such things makes you just as evil as you say he is. It's rude.

I have NEVER seen God in such a way, and belief me, I've had enough crap in my life to give me enough reason to.

Also, if you're just here to my beliefs, please do leave.
I know you have your right to your opinion, but stepping into a conversation you were not a part of to further belittle someone after dealing with enough, is just as hateful, and small-minded. Especially when you purposefully go through works of art ment to praise God an show love, and comment rude things just to damper somone's day.

Now, I really do wish you have a good day, and hopefully, someday, you could change your mind about something I find truly wonderful.

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VonRabenherz In reply to Deactivated1234 [2015-06-25 15:51:07 +0000 UTC]

"The way that you speak of him, only describes YOU as just that.
Calling someone such things makes you just as evil as you say he is."
So you're saying that calling someone a racist makes you a racist, too?
Calling someone a murderer makes one a murderer?
Calling someone misogynistic makes one misogynistic?

How does that make any sense?

"I have NEVER seen God in such a way, and belief me, I've had enough crap in my life to give me enough reason to."
It's not my problem that you have seemingly never read the bible, then. I'll give you a few examples:

Misogyny:
1 Cor 14:34-35 - "Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church."

1 Tim 2:12 - " I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent."

Exodus 20:17 - "You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male or female servant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."

Essentially, your god deems women property of men, property that is to remain silent and kept in submission, dominated. There are far more examples I could mention, but I think these suffice.

Racism:
Deu 7:1-2 - "When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations—the Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, seven nations larger and stronger than you—  and when the Lord your God has delivered them over to you and you have defeated them, then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy."

So, beside the fact that your god favors one ethnic group over all others, even though he supposedly created all of them, he here orders their multiple genocide simply for living in a certain land, with no wrongdoing on their part. If that isn't racism, nothing is.

Numbers 25 speaks of the people of Israel intermarrying with the Moabites and your god cracking down on them hard. Seems he doesn't approve of inter-racial marriages, doesn't want them to spawn mixed-blood bastards. Definitely racist.

Murderer:
Your god killed a metric fuckton of people. By biblical numers only, disregarding the instances where no numbers were given (like the flood), it already amounts to a minimum of 2,821,364 deaths either directly at your god's hands or by his command. Conservative estimates factoring in the instances where the bible gives no numbers go up to figures of around 25 million deaths.
I won't bother listing all the verses, here's a complete list, though: dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.d…

I could go on. The bible is chock-full of examples, it does a great job of characterizing your god as an incredibly spiteful, unfair, bullying, hateful villain. This is not my opinion. This is quite literally the story the bible tells, and it amazes me every day how religious people are able to rationalize this shit away.

"stepping into a conversation you were not a part of to further belittle someone after dealing with enough, is just as hateful, and small-minded."
I did not belittle you in any way, neither was I hateful. I think I was quite polite, actually. I merely pointed out some facts you seem to be unaware of.
As to me commenting at all ... DA has an open comment thread structure for a reason. If you want a private conversation with someone, use notes. That's what they're there for.

"Especially when you purposefully go through works of art ment to praise God an show love, and comment rude things just to damper somone's day."
I think you do not understand my intentions. I go through deviations spreading a doctrine that I deem extremely harmful and detrimental to society and comment pointing out facts in the hope that here or there, people will realize that what they're doing is slowly killing our civilization like a cancerous tumor. An overwhelming number of contemporary conflicts and wars are started for religious reasons. Religion is one of the prime sources of hate on this planet, and I, for one, do not intend to sit still and simply let it go its merry way. I'm not doing this to ruin anyone's day, I'm doing this so maybe, just maybe, people stop and think for just a second.

And lastly, if disagreeing with your views means I'm being rude, then yeah, I guess that's what I am. Not that I'd care in such a case.

"hopefully, someday, you could change your mind about something I find truly wonderful."
I do change my mind sometimes, after all I am always open to be convinced if I am presented with a strong enough case.
I have not yet seen such a strong case being made for your god, though, and I doubt I ever will. All I have ever seen from religious people is wishful thinking and rationalizations.

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Deactivated1234 In reply to VonRabenherz [2015-06-25 22:48:50 +0000 UTC]

Absolutely not.

I'm saying that if you were to call someone a heartless, and cruel jerk, it definitely doesn't make you a warm, and sun-shiny person now does it? Insulting someone for being everything but loveing and careing, doesn't make you look as good either.

Also, calling what I do a 'cancerous tumor' is irrational, and a little bit silly. Yes, I agree that there are plenty of "Christians" out there, twisting the words of God, but even so, that does not mean that you should have even so much as barged into this conversation, with intentions of trying to stop me from spreading my 'disease' in a manner that [even if that were not your intentions] offended me personally. I have not once gone an shunned a Atheist or Agnostic for their beliefs, and I expect you do return the courtesy.

Not all Christians are what you believe them to be. Unfortunately, the media, and any other form of ways to spread information tend not to show the Christians that hold their name to what they should actually be. No one ever hears about the 40+ men women and children that where slaughtered because they OWNED a Bible. No one hears about the missionaries that are stoned, beaten and killed for trying to show someone the love that they feel in their life. Everyone hears about the "Christian" family that lit their son on fire for being gay. But of course, it would make sense for the world to hate us. They don't truly know US.

And, even so the conversation was yes, much more mature than that of most other people's I've seen, but it is VERY rude to jump into a conversation that was discussed MONTHS ago between two persons, and immediately begin barraging someone's faith because you don't like what they have to say. It is extremely impolite to talk to someone as if they know NOTHING about about something they have been studying their ENTIRE LIFE, and automatically assume them to be ignorant. And if you were truly trying not offend me, you should have asked me to state your opinion, and waited for me to reply a go ahead, or a no thank you. Opinions are a wonderful thing, but when they are shoved onto someone when they are not welcome, they are not. Adding onto this, I had told Shawn (above), that this conversation could end, and he asked for my opinion. If Shawn did not want want to discuss with me, he could have just as easily asked me to leave, and I would have.

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VonRabenherz In reply to Deactivated1234 [2015-07-17 17:59:16 +0000 UTC]

Ah, but I'm not insulting anyone. I'm merely stating some facts that the bible gives me.
Besides, I don't believe that what I say about your god enables you to make any judgement of my character. I'm actually quite a cheerful, heartfelt and kind guy, believe it or not. Doesn't change the fact that I believe that your god is absolutely horrible in every way imaginable. I'm actually very glad that in all likelihood, he's just another fictional character.

Oh, I'm not shunning you. Far from it. But calling religions (yes, all of them) a cancer is far from irrational. Look at all the wars and suffering in this world. Then look closer and realize how much of it, how many of these heinous crimes against humanity, are committed for religious reasons. You may not commit these crimes, but the fact that you support a religious system is part of the problem.
One thing up front: I do not care if what I say offends people. I am not responsible for that - offense is always taken, never given. I do not say things with the intention of causing offense, but I also do not care if they do, that's not a problem on my end. I will not censor myself to protect other people's fragile sensibilities and egos.
As to barging in, again ... this is not a private message system but an open comment thread. I am well within my rights to barge in here anywhere I please.

There are exceptions to every rule. That's not something you need to point out to me, I am aware of that. But the fact is that most actual, believing christians are preachy, sanctimonious bigots who barely tolerate other views but their own in the best of cases. Yes, of course, not every christian is this way. But a damn big portion of them are.
A few words regarding missionaries: I'm not feeling any sympathy there. They go and try to force their belief system on other cultures without being asked to do so, without the members of those cultures wanting them to. They'll have to be able to deal with the consequences. Personally, I believe missionaries are scum. Not least of all because it was the work of missionaries that basically eradicated the original culture of my people, up to a point where many germans now consider our nation a christian nation.
As to why the world seems to hate you ... it might be connected to the hate many christians display towards anyone not embracing their religion, anyone not agreeing with their morals and such. A religion whose members murder doctors for performing abortions does deserve some hatred itself. Again, I know not all christians are like this, but it seems that enough of you are to make people despise you. That should give you something to think about.

Why would I ask you whether or not I may offer my opinion? I have the freedom to state my opinion whereever I please, just as you do (and did, in fact. I cannot remember you initially asking the other guy here whether he wanted to hear your opinion, either).

As to my willingness to consider ... I am always willing to consider someone else's arguments. Nothing is ever absolutely certain, there is no such thing as absolute truth, therefore I must always and continuously examine and re-examine my own position from different angles to ensure that it is the most sensible position to hold. So, yes, I will definitely listen. Critically and sceptically, as I listen to anything. If what you have to say is able to stand up to close scrutiny, if it holds its own under the laws of logic, if it makes sense, then I may very well adjust my position accordingly. I don't really believe that it's going to happen, because I am not sure that you could offer me any arguments I have not already heard and dismissed as unconvincing, but I'm always up for trying.

It's not really so much that I have questions, I think I have already found the answers for the questions that interest me, but I'm always interested in different points of view (this is partly why I start discussions like this. Besides trying to get people to see that what they're doing doesn't only harm them, but ultimately everyone), and I do question those, yeah. So if you think you can answer and stand up to that questioning, have at it.

Like I said, I'm actually quite the nice guy. Ultimately, it simply genuinely distresses me that in this day and age, people would still believe in bronze-age myths, base their whole lives on these unhealthy doctrines and even try to influence others to do the same - sometimes to the flat-out rejection of reality.

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Deactivated1234 In reply to VonRabenherz [2015-07-18 07:16:47 +0000 UTC]

I said DO NOT reply to this message if the next reply you had to say was in the least bit negative and you had no interest in my point of view. Calling ME scum (YES, I very much intend to be a missionary.), and everything I stand by foolish and irrational, is far from nice and pleasant, and everything you have said so far is telling me that matter what I say to you, you are going to turn back around and bash what I have to say. To me, that is not open minded and/or interested in my point of view at all.

This is where I take my leave, and not because I am a coward, but because I myself do not wish to be insulted in further.
(Why do Christians feel that insulting God is just as equally rude to insult them? If I called anyone's mother a fat and ugly hog, or their father a deadbeat piece of scum I guarantee that I will just as soon have a fist in my nose if that person loves and cherishes their parents. Insult my Father you have insulted me.)
I honestly would not have minded sitting down with someone and discussing their questions about my belief if they didn't belittle my God, and the people that worship Him. This is no longer the case here.

"Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." Mathew 7:6
Meaning, do not throw the love that I hold for God and his teaching continuously at people that will only turn and rip me to pieces for it, because in the end I can be teaching the gospel to people that truly want to hear and learn from it, than tiring myself and hurting myself over someone that doesn't give a royal crud about what I have to say, and turns around and throws insults at me where none are due.

If what you say about you being a nice and likable guy is really true, then I was not proven of that in the slightest. I ask that you respect me wanting to be left alone, and I ask that you do not reply to this message or I will block you.
I don't like to be insulted or bashed against when I have asked you to stop. Please, be on your way, I'd rather not discuss this any further. 

Also, if freedom of speech is very important to you, then don't tell me to quiet down about my religion, please, and whether it matters or not to you, I will be praying for you. Have a good one, we'll see who's right on the other side.

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Shawntheimmortal94 In reply to Deactivated1234 [2015-02-21 02:59:23 +0000 UTC]

Long story short I hate god

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KantiaCartography In reply to Shawntheimmortal94 [2015-05-16 21:40:59 +0000 UTC]

WOW there Nelly! I'm not sure how many other atheists you've met, but let me tell you something. DON'T ever put the words "I hate god" and "I'm an atheist" anywhere near each other. I know that you meant something more along the lines of "If there is a god, then I hate him" or "I hate the concept of a god", and you probably attempted to clarify this somewhere down the line, but please, don't ever start with "I hate god". 

Many theists already think that all atheists actually believe in their god, but are in denial or "hate him". We don't need other atheists giving them more ammo to quote bomb us with. Just look at the ending of the movie "God's Not Dead". 

I would advise looking up the terms Dystheism, Misotheism, and Maltheism. Thanks for your time. 

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Shawntheimmortal94 In reply to KantiaCartography [2015-05-16 23:14:09 +0000 UTC]

First of all don't tell me what I can and cannot say cause I have free will and I'm scared of what may or may not exist,I do hate god even if he exists or even the concept of him or her,the bible sure as hell doesn't make me like god anymore with all the crap that's in it,I can say I hate god and yes I am an atheist,people can say they hate god and be an atheist,there are christians turned atheist because of their experience of church and the bible,you can believe whatever you want but me? I hate god if he exists,I hate the concept of god,the god in the bible,I hate how Jesus is written like an arrogant ass who demands love from from you and calls you unworthy of his love if you love your family more than him,

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Deactivated1234 In reply to Shawntheimmortal94 [2015-06-25 23:06:37 +0000 UTC]

Shawn you really should just block this person. Them, and some other person have been going about here have been jumping into conversations just to start a fire.

Some guy jumped into ours, and now he won't let me be.

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Shawntheimmortal94 In reply to Deactivated1234 [2015-06-25 23:48:19 +0000 UTC]

I say bring it on,I don't care what they say

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Deactivated1234 In reply to Shawntheimmortal94 [2015-06-25 23:51:51 +0000 UTC]

I know, but it just bothers me when someone jumps into a conversation just to be negative. I wanna stand up and defend myself, I'm just so tired of being bullied about it, and they don't see to give a flying fart about what i have to say anyway

I just wish people would leave me alone, yknow? I wish people would ask to discuss, not throw a rude opinion at me *sigh*

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Shawntheimmortal94 In reply to Deactivated1234 [2015-06-26 00:05:04 +0000 UTC]

Well so far I haven't been bothered by these people,I mean I did get a nice comment from someone who said they believe in god because of a miracle and I can understand why they believe,don't mind these idiots,like you said just block them also I do like the other point of views of people who comment to discuss not Attack or troll,They give their points and I give mine,don't let them get to you okay? They're just cowards behind a screen they can't hurt you*Pets your head*

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Deactivated1234 In reply to Shawntheimmortal94 [2015-06-26 04:37:23 +0000 UTC]

shawn i swear to goodness i wih i could hug you

Just, he was being civil, but just it came of arrogant and it really was none of his business. He was just looking to start a war. (Funny, he's the one that said Religion is the reason for wars ha h a)

Also that's so cool!! Man I love miracles, my little sister was a miracle, believe it or not. xD

I know they can't hurt me physically, but it still hurts my feelings ; ~ ;

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Shawntheimmortal94 In reply to Deactivated1234 [2015-06-26 11:48:11 +0000 UTC]

Aww~come here*Hugs you*

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Deactivated1234 In reply to Shawntheimmortal94 [2015-06-27 01:04:06 +0000 UTC]

*Hugs* You're a dork, but thank you u v u

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Shawntheimmortal94 In reply to Deactivated1234 [2015-06-27 02:51:45 +0000 UTC]

Aww~You're a dork too*Pets your head*

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Deactivated1234 In reply to Shawntheimmortal94 [2015-06-27 18:37:54 +0000 UTC]

u v u

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Shawntheimmortal94 In reply to Deactivated1234 [2015-06-27 19:12:03 +0000 UTC]

A perverted dork! XD

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Deactivated1234 In reply to Shawntheimmortal94 [2015-06-28 00:56:09 +0000 UTC]

>8U

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Shawntheimmortal94 In reply to Deactivated1234 [2015-06-28 01:25:25 +0000 UTC]

XD

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KantiaCartography In reply to Shawntheimmortal94 [2015-05-17 00:22:07 +0000 UTC]

I'm just saying this as advise, so don't get mad, because we've all been accused of just "hating god". My whole point is that if you say "I hate god" you will send a totally different message than if you say "I hate the god portrayed in the Bible" or "I hate the idea of a god who would allow so much suffering in the world". Saying "I hate god" will either send the message that you're a misotheist who doesn't know what Atheism is (if the person is informed) or it will send the message that all atheists just "hate god" as an actual entity (if the person is uninformed). 

For the sake of an accurate public perception of Atheism, I advise all of my fellow atheists to either not say "I hate god" or clarify what they mean immediately after they've said it, so that anyone you hears their words doesn't get the wrong idea. If I wasn't an atheist and didn't understand what Atheism is and is not before reading your message, then I would have thought "atheists just hate god. okay" and then carried on my day without realizing that I now had an incorrect understanding of Atheism. That is my point. 

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Shawntheimmortal94 In reply to KantiaCartography [2015-05-17 02:15:14 +0000 UTC]

Fine,I hate the concept of god because if there is a powerful,all knowing,and all loving deity why do people suffer everyday? I hate how he's written in the bible as this vengeful despicable being that kills and demands our faith or rot in hell if we don't,I hate religious extremists that hurt innocent people in the name of their god,I hate how tight ass christians bash on anyone who's gay,likes video games,likes rock music or heavy metal and doesn't fallow the bible and surrender to a deity that may or may not exist,I hate how because of a religion women are beaten and treated like trash because they are women,I hate how a Piolit prays instead of trying to prevent the plane from crashing(which killed all of them!)I hate how people bash anyone who wants an abortion throwing religion at their faces instead of letting them live their lives,I hate how a hospital denied a woman an abortion when the pregnancy could kill her and she dies with the baby! I hate how people say I should believe when really there's no god! And even if he exists I would rather rot in hell than bow down to that oppressive,tight ass,arrogant,egotistical S.O.B!.......How's that?

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