HOME | DD
Kmadden2004 β So Near...
Published: 2010-07-20 20:40:53 +0000 UTC; Views: 2401; Favourites: 31; Downloads: 0
Redirect to original
Description
My obsession with Two-Face continues following this piece from last year; [link]I picked up the blu-ray for Tim Burton's Batman the other day and was reminded of the pure, unadulterated coolness of seeing Billy Dee Williams as Harvey Dent... If only the producers had kept him on for the rest of the series.
Instead we get a purple-faced reminder of what could have been...[link]
Related content
Comments: 31
π: 0 β©: 0
The Artist presents us with a bold image of what had might have been had executives in Hollywood thought differently.
The work is bold and quite realistic in technique. It approaches the look of a graphic novel, and personally this critic would be very pleased to see Burton's BATMAN universe explored in graphic form. The vision is very accomplished and achieves a victory for the "what if" that many a fan has wondered. One could only hope to see the series expanded upon. The image is intense, yet keeps its composure, signifying the work of a mature hand. An A+.
π: 0 β©: 0
Question...how did you do this?
Cause i'm having trouble making two-face pictures with billy dee williams and could use help
π: 0 β©: 0
I think the look would be much better without Billy's Mustache.
π: 0 β©: 0
This is one of the best variations I've seen on the split suit outside of the black-and-white from the animated series. I've never been big on the "bulging eye/exposed teeth" look; I prefer the earliest comics where the scar tissue left lines and discolouration but didn't distort his features so much; but this is still very well-done.
But to address certain claims here, because the same individual making them commented on my own drawing of a Williams-esque Two-Face:
It's true that all claims that Harvey Dent was meant to be included in "Batman Returns" are (probably false) rumours, likely derived from a brief comment made by Daniel Waters in an interview at the time of production. But the claims that Burton had planned on making "Batman Forever" (a title he doesn't care for, BTW) with Robin Williams as the Riddler, the only villain, are also rumours. According to Janet Batchler, one of the writers of the original "Forever" script, it was Schumacher who had Williams pegged as his first choice for the Riddler, based on a script that already had Two-Face included. Burton's only confirmed involvment with a third "Batman" film consisted of a half-hour meeting where he realised it was best to part company with Warners over the character, Joel Schumacher seeking his blessing, and the two of them hiring the Batchlers to write the first script.
As to Burton "disrespecting" Billy Dee Williams and having "no interest" in Two-Face; away from the DVDs, away from Warner Bros, Tim Burton has put Two-Face (who he always refers to as "Harvey Dent") up with the Joker and Catwoman as the top tier of Batman villains (interestingly, in the same interview, he lumps the Riddler in with the Penguins as characters he never "got.") It is true that, when it came time for "Batman Returns," Burton was interested in making a very different movie (that would "still be Batman"), so outside of Batman himself, Alfred, and Gordon, very little was carried over. But at the time of "Batman '89," Burton had no intentions of making a sequel, and I think people get confused about what he actually said on his commentary. Any good director (or actor, or writer) working on a film (or any story) will develop more material for a character than actually makes it to the final "draft," so to speak. There's a past and a future that's useful in terms of finding a character, but isn't part of the story. What Burton basically said on his commentary (if not with perfect clarity) was that he knew that Harvey Dent eventually becomes Two-Face (whether or not that ever made it into a film), that it was unusual for the time to take a "comic book movie" and treat it seriously, they needed actors who would give believeable performances and invest in these characters, and Billy Dee Williams did that and was into Dent's character. The comment that, if there were to be another movie with Two-Face, it would be exciting to have the "black and white" imagery extend to Dent's actual deformity, was just speculation on Burton's part.
π: 1 β©: 2
π: 0 β©: 0
Like i said, I'm still not convinced that Burton did it because he thought Billy Dee was the best guy for the job acting wise or his alleged claims on the Black & White concept which is total bullsh!t. It's pretty clear that Billy Dee's role was that of a Token Black guy.
The only reason i can think of for Tim Burton to hire Billy Dee was that he needed another token black guy for it since he wasn't happy with the ones he had, (The black joker thug that did the beating on Bats, The Black cop that got the tip off on the Axis Chemical Factory, ect. After all he did have a hard time on the production set at the time.) So it was pretty obvious that Tim Burton had no interest in the Harvey Dent character at all that makes you wonder why they even needed Harvey Dent to begin with.
Billy Dee being just a nod to the fans in that role is really stupid if he wasn't put to any use.
Oh one last thing, Billy Dee's interview on him playing Two-Face differently then Tommy Lee Jones is a joke. Why you ask? You see money comes and goes, that Two-Face role was a one time deal and Billy blew it by playing a bear rug. He knew that role was at risk yet he didn't do a damn thing about it. So in the end Billy Dee has no one to blame but himself for not securing that role. I have seen several actors fight to keep the roles they want to play. Billy on the other hand is a joke. I know it's harsh, but it's the truth.
Also bare these few things in mind...
1.) Billy Dee Williams told Robert Wuhl that he took the part of Harvey Dent because he would become Two-Face in another movie. Boy was he ever gullible LOL
2.) Billy Dee Williams got himself a Pay or Play contract, to ensure himself the part of Two-Face. That never works cause it can be easily bought out and it did!!!
3.) Billy Dee Williams has said that he "Wanted desperately to do Two-Face". And "Was hoping his role in Batman would segway into that". Of course he never fought to keep that role instead he decided to play a bear rug. So much for his so called desperation. LOL
π: 0 β©: 0
Really cool, love how dark and creepy he looks.
π: 0 β©: 0
He looks awesome! They should have kept him at least.
Originally, Harvey Dent was written to be in Batman Returns. He'd be blackmailed by Penguin, and he pushed Selina out the window. Also, the kiss Catwoman gave him was supposed to give him that scar. Setting up the next sequel.
π: 1 β©: 2
π: 0 β©: 1
π: 1 β©: 1
π: 0 β©: 0
That's all rumour and conjecture. Sam Hamm wrote the initial draft for the Batman sequel,ο»Ώ which was to feature Catwoman and The Penguin as the two main antagonists. This screenplay was rejected by Tim Burton (partly because it was too early in the process and Burton's mind wasn't really on making a sequel for some time after the first Batman).
Daniel Waters than wrote and early draft dated May 1992, which can be found online, which makes no mention of Harvey Dent, either as a potential villain or otherwise, but does however, feature Max Shreck, a name purposefully used as a homage to the silent-era actor who played Nosferatu. There is nothing in the Max Shreck character that would have worked with Harvey Dent.
Yes it's a shame, but Tim Burton is still to blame for not mentioning Harvey Dent in Returns. I mean Billy Dee did put some effort into that role with his Adam Clayton Powell Jr. like Speech and introduced the Bat-Signal was memorable enough for the press to often cite it as one of his most known roles. It just comes to show you that Burton has no respect for Billy Dee despite them working together before.
Still i don't think Burton was EVER going to use Two-Face for his movies, Burton admitted that he thought it would be interesting to use Billy Dee as Two-Face butο»Ώit was cut before any real substance could be given to it. Burton wanted to include only one villain in the third Batman film, The Riddler, conceptualized with Robin Williams but WB asked him to be only a producer and approve of Schumacher as director. The rest is history..
π: 0 β©: 1
Still though, it was have been awesome.
π: 0 β©: 1
Dare to dream: Even when you look at his two Batman movies, it was obvious Burton had no interest in the Dent character. He was a forgettable non entity in Batman '89. Literally any actor could have played that tiny part. He was absent in Returns, with no mention of what became of him. He was unimportant in Burton's Batman world.
Some people thought it was to give a little inside joke/nod of Lando Calrisian from Empire Strikes Back to the fans of sci-fi movies and other so called "geeky" stuff on film and comic books, they would also be part of the target audience for Batman 1989 on theaters.
Since Billy Dee was underused, it felt like he was just another token black guy in the flick. That was why it diminished ingenuity for the character's presence to be even perceived that way
π: 0 β©: 1
Well, his loss.
π: 0 β©: 0
I was always confused as to how Harvey Dent went from being a black guy to that other dude.
For continuity purposes, they should have kept this dude as Harvey!
π: 0 β©: 1
I really didn't have a problem in recasting Two-Face since Batman was being recast too. What I didn't like about Two-Face in Batman Forever is how Joel Schumacher and company seemed to totally miss the point of the character. Two-Face is supposed to be someone who has a double personality (think the Batman version of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde). Harvey's coin decides the fate of someone or something, like if it lands on the good side, he'll spare someone, if it lands on the bad/scarred side, he'll kill the person. But in this movie, that's completely thrown out of the window as we instead, get Harvey repeatedly flipping his coin in order to get to the scarred side.
π: 0 β©: 1
Well at least the recasting of Batman still had a WHITE GUY.
Yeeaahhh I try not to pay much attention to Batman Forever in general. It's my second least favorite. What's the first?
Batman and Robin of course.
π: 1 β©: 2
π: 0 β©: 0
If you read interviews with Schumacher from before Batman Forever's release Tommy Lee Jones was hard to work with and wouldn't listen to his directions. The original script wrote Two-Face to be darker and brooding to offset their electric characterization of The Riddler (which would've been brilliant), but TLJ didn't want to be upstaged by Jim Carrey.
π: 0 β©: 1
Well....shit. Man I bet the movie would have been so much better if he did what the directors told him to.
And no matter how you play it, you're always going to be upstaged by Carrey ANYWAYS, so...might as well go out with style.
π: 0 β©: 1
Batman Forever really needed a darker, more serious take on Two-Face to balance out the hyper-stylized Riddler. Instead, we got an overload of competing egos that dragged the film down a notch from what it could have been.
Also Schumacher could have made a darker Batman Forever like Burton's if he hadn't been under heavy pressure from WB studio to do so and said that his films were made intentionally marketable (or "toyetic") and kid-friendly which is why Tommy Lee Jones was a Joker knock-off instead of the Two-Face we all know and love.
π: 0 β©: 1
Eyup.
Well, the movie series was pretty goofy to begin with...ehg, I'm just glad Batman Begins and TDK gave us the Batman we've always wanted.
π: 0 β©: 0
I don't think that even Billy Dee Williams could have saved Batman for ever. If only they had kept Burton and Keaton.
π: 1 β©: 2
π: 0 β©: 0
True. Though as bad as Forever may be, it is still at least watchable... same can't be said about Batman & Robin, though...
π: 1 β©: 2
π: 0 β©: 0
[link]
I think that sums it up pretty well.
π: 0 β©: 1
:laugh:
Ah, yes, the Nostalgia Critic always manages to brighten up my Wednesday mornings...
π: 0 β©: 0