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McSes β Forever Here
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Published: 2007-11-16 11:54:25 +0000 UTC; Views: 1178; Favourites: 22; Downloads: 0
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Also after all the wars, the conflicts and all the bullshit, we are still here...Forever Here.Related content
Comments: 58
what do u mean "shame it stands for everything I reject..."?
what do u reject?
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I reject the way IsraΓ«l deals with the palestines, I just don't understand why IsraΓ«l suppresses people, can't they learn from the past, and why does Irael keep building houses in palstine territory have they never heard of peaceful coexistence? I know that the palestines also have a lot to learn but why can't Isreal try to negociate?
P.S. sorry for my horrible English
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u live in holland, u learn from TV, no? so...who said its like u see on the TV?
and learn some history, there was never palestine, they are refugese from egypt and jordan.
after the 1967 6th day war, these refugese start to call them selfs "palestinians"
east jerusalem was jordenian, not palestinian, never.
and..........build in east jerusalem is not palestinian teretory its the camital of israel
ps: your english is just fine
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Most media here in holland are pro-Irael so...
and so what if there were no palestine people, the last time the area we now call Israel was jewish was a long time ago, so they have every right to be there as do the Israelian people. as I already said what's wrong with peacefull coexsitance?
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living there must be tough for you and all israelians...
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mmm....not so much...we use to this life with huge preassure all the time
its not swizterland for sure
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i heard they have the biggest suicide rate in europe!
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mmm oh my god... even more than in my city? here's there is a high rate !
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why? aot of people like to kill themselfs in your city?
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na na ... they don't like to but , i think it's 'cause here there are lots of familiar problems, boys are not happy (even if they have got all they want !) and so what ...
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Very powerfull shot, i don't think i've ever seen a flag shot that i didn't consider corny before
I might have my issues with israel, but a flag does represent its right to exist, and with that i agree.
Hope one day it will be able to co-exist, as well as exist.
Oh well, lets not get into politics. Great shot.
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i also hope u wont feed your knowleg from the TV...it may change your views...
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as you might see from my current journal [link] i know what i'm speaking of.
Cheers
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i read it
that means u know what is going on here?
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evidently not, that's not sufficient per se, but it demonstrates that i have sources other than "cnn" or some other biased crap.
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amos oz is a sorce?
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why? because he can write good novels?
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no, because he's someone who's had a first hand experience, been a Labor Zionist and in Kibbutz Hulda, thought in the army, wrote a number of essays, won shitloads of prizes over them, and is generally considered an authority on such matters. Not because he can "write good novels".
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i cant see him as an "authority on such matters"
yes, he is all what u said, but it still dont make him a sorce in my eyes...
besides..the conflict is too deep that we can even understand it.
we dont even trust eachother, last say like that..
in 2005 we (israel) gave them (lats say back, even if the war that started the all thing wasnt because of us) the all gaza strip as a thing to help them and to show them (the palestinians) that we want peace.
look what they do now, hamas are controling the gaza strip and shoot rockets from this teretory we gave them.
i live 30 minuts from there, and last year i almost got hit from a rocket
is that how u make peace? i cant even understand why we try to talk to them...
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i completely understand your point of view, its certainly impossible to maintain a neutral stance when you're being fired upon ( )
but nevertheless, wouldn't you agree that the only solution lies in a compromise? I'm not saying an easy or obvious one or that i can propose a solution, but in general terms, isn't that the only way there will ever be peace there?
I suppose, even if you take the humanity completely out of the situation, you would still have to talk to them because your future requires you to do so, wouldn't you agree?
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sure i agree
and thats what i said, we gave them "there" teretory back as a start...look what they do with it now..
they burn synagougs and the shoot at us from there.
is that the solution? is that how i expect now to move? what will be next?
they cant even make peace inside them selfs, look how the hamas and fatach are fighting now between the gaza strip and the west bank...u really think they want peace with us?
maybe trhe normal people on the street, but not there politisians, they want just money and power, and they know that in peace times they will have to deal with other problams, like findinf jobs or anything like a normal state, they prefer it that way, a conflict and continuation of this situation.
and they show it every time
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there isn't much of a point into us going into a serious indepht discussion on the particulars of the war, as obviously you are much closer to it than i am and it would make little sense in making lists of crimes either side has commited. I have no intention of defending what hammas is doing, but that does by means signify that i condone israel's position.
The point i wanted to make is that the only way out is by a compromize, in which probably both sides will feel wronged, but will take the lesser of both evils.
Actually you made a very interesting point about the intentions of the politicians being different from the intention of the people. I'm sure a bloke who has his little fruit stand in gaza will have much more interest in lasting peace than the politician who wants to seem strong, and the same thing in israel, i'm sure the people want peace while politicians are too afraid of seeming weak. Maybe that's one step towards the solution, for people to take a stronger hold on power, and send a clear message to politicians about what they want done. Too idealistic, you reckon?
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give me a list of "crimes" we did...i want to hear it
and i'm sure most of it is gestefied..
and as i told u before, we did too many step foword, they did none...
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No, i won't list them. That's easy to find, anyone with half a knowledge of history or even current events knows that israel is commiting tons of crimes under international law and even crimes against humanity, that's not the issue here at all.
I don't expect you are in some limbo state where you don't know what actions your own country is undertaking. I won't discuss facts as if they were subjective or arguable.
And as far as taking steps forward, once again, its not a wash, its not "one side is trying and the other isn't."
Since camp david that either side has done nothing but make the situation worse. The return of the gaza strip, while a positive step, cannot be regarded as some major act of generosity, to return territories you occupied by force is nothing more than normal and compulsory if you are to keep anoy sort of respectability.
You sound like an inteligent bloke, please don't fall for the typical mistake of trying to devide between the "goodies" and the "baddies".
Its a complex situation, where both parties have a legitimate claim on the same piece of land. Its that simple and that complicated.
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i just want to know what u calling a "crimes ageinst humanity" thats all
if we make a worker stay in a block for half a day to check if he have bomb in his car, i think its our right.
if we destroy a building with people who build bombs and also childrens are there and we kill them accedently, i think its right.
if we destroy a building where they shot rockets at us from and some cevilians killed its not our problam. they have to take there our crazy peope who destroy there oun dream of a state.
and by the way, all of our "occupied teretories" was taken in wars we didnt start, also the 6 day war by the way.
its like...we defending ourselfs and we have to say sorry...i think its stupid.
and i have to see it in this way of good and bad, u forgeting that i am israeli, and if with you i'm really trying to be as objective as i can, i'm still in it, its my contry that i want to defend and wake up people's eyes...mio amigo portugese
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exactly, the last bit is what i was saying about how i can't try and talk about it on the same plane because i have no stake in it, i have the luxury of neutrality.
as for the list of crimes (those that are official, i'm not making any void claims here), i'd suggest the United Nations site or Amnesty Internation on the prisioners without right to trial.
But once again, pointing fingers and demonizing will do no-one any good. That's why i'd rather not get into this "you did this and they did that" sort of thing, its a vicious circle that leads nowhere.
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so what you are suggesting?
and by the way...its not like they dont have our soldier gilad shalit.
that..not only not haveing a trail, we dont know even if he is alive or dead.
and they want thousends of prisinors for him...
we all know that if israel would really want to use her force there wasnt any gaza strip now..but we are not idiots.
and by the way, the stupid UN is not a part in it, they are all politician fulls there
did u know that they said israel is the only contry in the world to violet cevil rights? can u belive that bullshit?
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"they said israel is the only contry in the world to violet cevil rights"
No they didn't. If you're gonna make such a claim have something to back it with.
As for the palestinian crimes, once again, i'm not saying they are the good guys and you are the bad guys, but i am saying that both sides are commiting crimes, and saying "yeah, but they do it too" does not absolve you of your own.
What i'm suggesting is this: there are no good and evil in this, only two sides with legitimate and incompatible claims.
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i'm not in a trail to give u profes man...dont ask me to back it up like that
i will try to find u an english article about it, but i'm not have to give you "something to back it with.."
we are haveing a chat, i'm not in a trail and u r not a judge
also if i will say who is wrong and who is right wont solve anything, i think that we gave tjem enought "gifts" to show them that we are seriuse, they didnt do anything...and i have to continue and say how wrong they are because they are, and i dont know how to say this but thats the truth what can we do? what u expecting of us? we are fucking trying man and they dont do shit.
i really dont belive they will do anything because as i said, most of there leaders want this situation.
besides, u forgeting that not all of arab contries are even willing to talk to us or say israel is a nation, and not even them.
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correct link: [link]
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Interesting statement in light of the world today.
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intresting as right or wrong or anything ales?
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In our world, right makes wrong and wrong makes right. It's all a matter of history.
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even right now its like that...you right
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That's a very emotional picture... Its simplicity and the choice of black and white (very original, for a flag) accentuate its power.
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thank you very much, i'm happy to hear it from you.
i'm very proud in its meaning, and i'm happy u liked it. kiss
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in sence...
its good
sorry for my english
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