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RednBlackSalamander — Counter-radicalization
by-nc-nd
#4chan #socialism #youtube #reddit #internet #politicalcartoon
Published: 2018-03-09 21:59:09 +0000 UTC; Views: 2095; Favourites: 15; Downloads: 2
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Way too many Leftists seem to think this is how the internet works.Related content
Comments: 13
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"He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that."
- John Stuart Mill
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modern leftists don't give a shit about converting people. They just want to LARP in their safe little bubble and pretend that the world of intellectual opposition to them doesn't exist, under the guise of "not giving it legitimacy".
Anyone who fights using tactics that *work* instead of just *looking cool* end up getting called DemSocs, and anyone with an actionable plan on how to do literally anything just gets called a utopian. It's a fucking joke.
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I'm not sure what this means... if you're talking about leftists not actually debating the points the Alt-Right is pushing, I know several leftist YouTubers who do... Shaun (formerly Shaun & Jen), HBomberguy, ContraPoints, Kevin Logan, Thom Avella, Libertarian Socialist Rants, AnActualJoke, etc., etc., etc.
If you mean about leftist YouTubers not actually debating Alt-Right types in a live debate... I think that may be slightly more true, but some like ContraPoints and Kevin Logan do show up on livestreams that are full of Alt-Right a-holes, and try to be the Only Sane Man in a chatroom full of neo-Nazis, and Christian fundies who only aren't Nazis because they follow the Dinesh D'Souza school of thought - that the "National Socialists" are TOTALLY dirty left-wing atheists who are also the very Jews/gays/communists they expressed to destroy. /s
And there are videos of socialists explaining that the reason they don't suggest live debates isn't to just give up, but to hit back the Alt-Right with response videos instead of live debates so they can't "win" the arguments through faux-charisma and bullshit artistry like they can in a live debate (example: www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAeho9… , www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_cvf8… )
Plus the idea of "the best way to 'fight' the Alt-Right is to just ignore them until they get bored and give up" is more of a centrist and an Alt-Right/Alt-Light disguised as "centrist" position, so I don't know why that's something given by leftists on the internet - certainly no leftist that I can immediately think of.
If there's something I'm misinterpreting or not getting that you can clear up for me, I'd appreciate it! And I do like to say to keep up the good work in going after right-wing idiots and and just how badly they're making it impossible for the rest of us to have nice things.
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You listed some good examples, but it's not enough. It's still way too common to see people on the Left repeating that tired old line "DON'T DEBATE FASCISM, SMASH IT!" even though that makes no sense in the internet age.
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Ok, my first response to you is getting a reply from a "Dave-Sledge-Bro" guy, and I'm not sure what he's asking, or how I should answer.
He says, quote: "But how can you have a rational debate with those who don’t fight fair?"
I remember bumping into this guy once before, and getting into a fight over the Electoral College system (TL;DR I wanted it abolished due to how it let Donald Trump into the White House despite losing by almost 3 million votes in the popular election, he wanted it kept because he didn't want "PC thugs from California and New York" dictating the elections, I pointed out this was purely partisan hackery of keeping an illogical election system in place to screw over those who don't fit his political agenda while I had the principled reason of "the candidate who gets the most votes actually wins the election", and then him saying this: "Fighting against Donald Trump means that you’re fighting against meme culture and meme culture always wins. It doesn’t matter if you stand for a principled cause, if you don’t give what meme culture wants it will force what it wants out of you by making your life a living hell. I don’t want Wikileaks and 4chan to come after me for protesting the system that allowed their Messiah to become President.")
So... yeah, he does seem right wing, but only because of legitimate peer pressure from right-wing assholes trying to drag him into line. Therefore, I'm not sure how I should respond to him (or even if I should), so what do you recommend?
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Ok, maybe it's just because I don't travel all of the internet social circles you do. I assume your "don't debate fascism, smash it!" line is from the super-hardcore Antifa types who make speedbags out of pricks like Richard Spencer, and become memes in the process (www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz_Bn4… )?
I'll admit upfront I don't follow those circles at all, mostly because I don't agree with punching Nazis (NOTE: this is PURELY for "practical" reasons of not giving the fascist jackwads "legitimacy" in regards to their victim complex via martyrdom - morally speaking, I wouldn't shed one tear if Spencer or any full-fledged neo-Nazi or other racist piece of shit gets socked in the face by somebody tired of their sugarcoating of straight-up white supremacy and fascism. Hell, I sometimes watch several "meme remixes" of Spencer getting cold-cocked, and still smile no matter what song, game or movie it's set to!).
I DO agree that we should fight the Alt-Right in pretty much every other way, either by debunking white power horseshit online, or by outing as many members of the Alt-Right to the public as possible (like the mass exposing of neo-Nazis and other white supremacists after Charlottesville, and their names getting blasted all over social media even while they tried to backpedal by saying "we were just joking!" or "we only wanted to keep up monuments, we didn't want to celebrate white supremacy!", and other bullshit excuses) so that they face all the social consequences (getting fired by employers who don't want Nazi sympathizers on their staff, getting mocked, derided, and generally made a social pariah by every non-fascist who catches wind of them, etc.), and I do want to point out that the Leftists that I personally know of are doing their best to do that.
Granted, I may be missing your point yet again (in which case, I apologize ). Feel free to correct me if I'm getting even more off point that before!
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But how can you have a rational debate with those who don’t fight fair?
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Okay...but a lot of people do, especially alienated teens looking for answers, and the Left can't win a propaganda war by ignoring it.
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I keep saying this and get dismissed a lot.
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Yeah, it can be frustrating. Still important though!
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