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zarla — There's always something isn't there
#papyrus #sans #gaster #handplates #undertale
Published: 2017-05-08 04:32:28 +0000 UTC; Views: 125481; Favourites: 3652; Downloads: 159
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i wanna see mercyplates Gaster teach them about the barrier and the human war and all that jaz. be interesting to see Sans reaction to the fact that even though hes now free...hes still trapped 
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Why do you feel the need to do that?
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do what? break your heart?
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Sans:
*sadness consumes your soul*
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i imagine how Mercyplates can be some sort of prequel to Undertale's plot
Gaster dies by something not known yet, and Sans & Papyrus live in Snowdin, having a photo of Gaster, Sans and Paps
omfg xd
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Maybe he could die by the core. One of the gaster followers says 'he died by his invention' or something like that. In the Undertale game nobody seems remember anything about Gaster and I always thinked that who dies in the core is forget forever (Idk why I think this lol) Or maybe he could die by the extractor of determination. It is made for extract determination from human souls but monster souls don't have enough determination to extract and maybe it could extract something else (like his corporeal matter). These are my theories
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Dear Dr. Wing Dings Gaster:
You are not weak. You have done awful, awful things, yes, but you did them for good reasons. And when you could have easily fallen forever in darkness, you chose to instead see the light and reach towards it. You have redeemed yourself, or are at the very least trying to. This does not make you weak. This makes you one of the strongest monsters in the Underground. A strength you have passed on to your sons. Never forget your failures so you will not repeat them. But never forget your strength so you may call upon it. For yourself…and for them.
-A friend
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I hope Gaster reads that!
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Dear WickedBrony234,
I got your letter back to the nice man who was meant to get it! I didn't read it or anything. Just wanted to let you know so you wouldn't worry.
- My OC (probs shouldn't be here XD)
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Dear A friend:
I stole the letter Because today I don't care
-My OC
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Dear WickedBrony234
You don't understand, very few people do. What happened was not a "fight for the light" or any such sentimental dribble, but rather a test of my ability to do what must be done for the good of the many. To use your terms, "falling forever in darkness" is not an easy endeavor, a monsters natural empathy makes the "light" far easier than the "dark". What I failed was trying to set aside that selfish sentimentality, the desire to simply do what felt right and what I wanted to do, in favor of doing what must be done to save the King and everyone in the Underground. I was unable to take that evil upon myself, and have as a result forced The King to carry the burden. So no, I am not "strong", I have chosen the path of least resistance, and have let those far less deserving than me drown themselves in the dust of the innocent.
-Dr Gaster
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Dr. Gaster,
You tell yourself that, but I don't think you believe it. Yes, sometimes horrible things must be done for the good of many. I will grant you that. "All's fair in love and war," as they say. But this was not about love...unless, perhaps, you count LOVE. You convinced yourself that it was war in a time of peace. Not only that, you convinced yourself that you were a soldier. And when we delude ourselves so deeply, it is sometimes hard to see past that. You're at least trying, and that is something not many monsters, or humans, can say. Now, about that supposed "selfishness"...well, you're a man of logic, so let's use facts here. Below is the definition of selfish.
Selfish; adj. (of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure
To be clear, your motives were not selfish. Wanting to help the Underground was not selfish. Wanting to help your friend was not selfish. But by this definition, what do you call just about everything you did to those children? You, Dr. Gaster, in performing those experiments, were being selfish. So don't think that wanting to stop was selfish when the exact opposite is true.
As for Asgore, the situation is bleak. However, I will point out that you are not leaving him to do anything. Hard as it is to believe, Asgore is, much like you were, choosing to perform these acts. You are not forcing him to do anything. He is doing this with a heavy heart, but of his own free will. You can not, and never will force him to either continue or discontinue.
We all make choices, Dr. Gaster. It is my hope you will see yours for what they are.
-A friend
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WickedBrony234
You are factually wrong on one thing, we are at war. We have been since the murder of The Kings son. He intends it to be a one-man war, but that does not change the fact that we are at war, one that will end in our extermination, or theirs.
On the topic of selfishness, you are wrong two fold. I direct your attention to the final component of the definition "or pleasure". A Monster prefers to spend time happy with others, they draw pleasure from such peaceful acts and displeasure when near people are suffering. Choosing to act in such a way such that they do not compromise their own happiness, while allowing the happiness and welfare of others suffer, is complete selfishness. And as such, if one is not able to withstand that suffering, and instead choose to let others suffer while they are happy, that is cowardliness and weakness. As for what I did to subjects 1-S and 2-P, I did not draw any profit or pleasure from it. I'm certain that you'll be more than aware, with your inter-dimensional snooping, of how the experiments taxed me and how hard I worked to keep myself emotionally distant, such that I would be able to complete my tasks. I worked for other people's happiness and safety, while compromising my own, sacrificing it even for those more worthy than me.
And now you are being pedantic. I had two choices before me, and I knew the outcomes of both. One, the King sacrifices themselves, the other, he survives and can continue to live a happy life. It does not matter that he COULD choose to not sacrifice himself, for it's certain that he would. If I must, I will simplify the subject for you. I push a button, and a light turns on. If I don't push the button, the light does not turn on. When I push the button, I turn on the light. It does not matter that I my action of pressing the button is at least 3 degrees separated from the light itself turning on, and that it's possible that something might happen, such as the bulb being burnt out, that would cause the light to not turn on, when I pressed the button I did so knowing the probable result of my actions, and as such am responsible for them.
-Dr. Gaster
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Dr. Gaster,
Very well. I could argue how you are twisting that definition, but I have a better idea.
Suppose, for just a moment, a hypothetical situation. Let's say that humans are once again at war with monsters. And, for some reason, monsters are winning. I, a human, know that we could win if we understood monsters better. Through a series of events, I decide to create a monster for that purpose. The result, Dr. Gaster, is you.
I tell you that you are not a human, not a monster, just a thing. For the first few months, I treat you fine. I do not give you physical contact or emotional support, but neither I physically hurt you. Then, much like you did, I start to grow attached. I grow worried I might lose track of what I originally created you for. So, I do what you did. I screw on the plates, without warning. I begin the experiments, without warning. I tell you that I'm doing this for the betterment of mankind, that I need to be strong, but you don't understand any of that. All you understand…is that it hurts.
Remember, I am doing this for my people. By your own logic, Dr. Gaster, I am justified. But when you see your actions done by an enemy, to YOU, can you justify them in the same way? I doubt you can.
-WickedBrony234
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WickedBrony234
You are operating under a critical misunderstanding. I am not, nor have I ever claimed to be, a good person. What I do is not right, it is not just, it is not moral, it is not ethical, what it is is necessary. Good, bad, it always comes down to the same principal. You kill, or you are killed. I've explained this to 1-S before, I would have thought you'd have watched that conversation.
-Dr Gaster
OOC: The mentioned conversation
Mature Content
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Dr. Gaster,
You have failed, then, to understand the point of that thought exercise. I did not claim to be in the right. I claimed what I was doing was justified. I claimed that what I was doing was needed for the good of mankind. So, once again, I ask you…was I correct in that assumption? If you can not honestly answer "yes" to that, then I was not justified.
And if I was not justified, then you, Dr. Gaster, who did the same thing for the same reason, was not justified.
Let me make one thing perfectly clear. In this context, "justified" is not "doing a bad thing for good reasons." Justified is, quite simply, "did I have a warrent to do it"?
Can you answer me that question, Dr. Gaster? Perform that thought experiment again, and give me an honest, one word answer. Was I justified? Yes or no?
-WickedBrony234
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WickedBrony234
If you wish for a statement free from any qualifications or elaborations on meaning then fine.
Yes.
Yes you were "justified". It was the choice you needed to make in order to accomplish your goals. I am not saying I would forgive you in that scenario, that knowing your reasoning would cause me to desire your death less. But you had "warrant", in that it was the actions you had to do to achieve an outcome that you could live with. I would oppose you to the end, but such is the way of this world, Kill or Be Killed.
-Dr Gaster.
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I loved reading this letter chain ^^ good job
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Everyone on this thread,
This has gone on for way too long. Please stop.
-Darlaimerner
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Dr. Gaster,
Very well. Would you answer the same way if you were not the only one? What if I had created both a "regular" monster, so to speak…
And a boss monster?
I believe you know who I am referring to. Do you keep your stance? Yes or no?
-WickedBrony234
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WickedBrony234
I do not see how including personal relations to suffer alongside me would change matters when I already told you that in the hypothetical scenario I'd despise you and would wish you dead. You'd be a terrible person, but that is not the question. You could include every single monster in the underground in your scenario, ignoring obvious logistical issues and implications to resource base and technology level, and it would not change anything. It is what is required to be done to achieve what you must do. Kill or Be Killed.
So to answer your question with the simple answers that you prefer, yes, I would keep my stance. And if I'm to continue spending my time on responding to these letters, I'd prefer for them to actually hold meaningful arguments, rather than attempts at making matters personal, personal relations have no baring on what is necessary.
-Dr Gaster.
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Dr. Gaster,
I appreciate your honesty, if nothing else. Then allow me to continue this line of thought. Let's say that I, like you, decided to stop. I took both you and Asgore out of the lab and passed you off as my, for obvious reasons, adopted children. I realize you do not have the highest opinions regarding humans, but for the sake of this argument, let's say this is generally accepted. You're probably thinking I'm going to ask if you think I'm weak or selfish, but I already know the answer, so let us take a different approach. What would Asgore think? What would the humans around me think? Would they call this weak or selfish? I will not ask for a simple answer, but I will ask for an honest one. Because sometimes you need to see things from another set of eyes.
-WickedBrony234
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WickedBrony234
Odds are they would not, for they are kind and good people. That would not make them correct however. Just because something is generally accepted to be true, does not make it so. Nor would such sentiments serve to soothe you, when you watch your friends and family being slain one by one, knowing that had you stayed the course they would still be alive and happy. They would be dead because of your decision, and even if they do not blame you it does not change that fact. And is that something you could live with? Because you could not bear to continue your work, everyone you know suffers? You need to make sure you can live with your choices.
-Dr Gaster.
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Dr. Gaster,
You bring up a good point. But do you know what would more?
-WickedBrony234
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Dr. Gaster,
Pardon my mistake. I meant to ask do you know what would hurt them more?
-WickedBrony234
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WickedBrony234
That is a foolish question, for while they'd be hurt by your/my actions, they'd still be alive to feel that pain. Just because being dead inherently carries with it no feelings of pain or suffering does not make it the preferable option. As long as they are alive, there's the chance of mending and moving on, an option denied to them in death for they are forever gone.
-Dr Gaster
OOC: You can edit your comments after you post them.
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Dr. Gaster,
Is truly what you think? Do you think anyone would forgive you for doing such horrible acts in their name? Because like it or not, you will have made them feel like they, too, were a part of this. You will insist otherwise, just I would to my loved ones. But if I were in their shoes…
No matter how close I was…
No matter what they were trying to do…
I, personally, believe that to be a fate worse. Than. Death.
And you know I am not the only one. Asgore, Alphys, Toriel…your family…
I'm sorry to bring up such a painful truth. But it is the truth. The burden is not on your shoulders alone. Your actions, intentionally or not, will be on the shoulders of everyone you have and will ever love for the rest of their days. Just as it would be with me.
What's done is done. You can not change it, but by stopping, we would have at least made that burden lighter. It may weigh heavier on our shoulders, but that is what strength is for.
-WickedBrony234
OOC: I know, but I haven't figured out how to do that yet. 😅
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WickedBrony234
I do not expect them to forgive me, I fully expect to be executed if my actions come to light. And I would not regret it. They are alive, that is all that matters.
OOC: 2nd half of pic is related
If they truly believe it's a fate worse than death, they have a simple method of achieving the lesser punishment. If they don't however, and are instead exaggerating the suffering which they currently feel, then that proves it's a preferable trade off. And as with all things, the feelings would fade with time, time they have. Are you suggesting they would spend the remainder of their life, doing nothing but regretting my actions? That they would never move on, that they wouldn't make any friends who they enjoy spending time with, falling in love, having children, they would lose all enjoyment in all things for the rest of their life? Cause if they don't, then that proves the other part of my point, they can continue living and enjoy themselves and fall in love, opportunities denied to the dead.
-Dr Gaster.
OOC: Simply click the button in the top right of your comment.
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Dr. Gaster,
So you would prefer to give a reason for suicide, then?
Hm. Then perhaps another monster could take 1-S and 2-P away from you, and finish the work that you were too "weak" and "selfish" to complete. It would get done. It would give your loved ones less reason to suffer. But you wouldn't let that happen, would you?
-WickedBrony234
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WickedBrony234
If they would die either way, then what does it matter? Dead is dead.
In the hypothetical scenario that there'd be a monster who is smart enough to continue my work, why would I stop them? Inaction is far easier than action, I'd hope that I wouldn't be so weak that I'd be forced into action and only propagate suffering.
-Dr Gaster
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Dr. Gaster,
To answer your first question, it's a matter of direct guilt. In the first scenario, they are killed by a stranger. In the second, they are killed by you. Because of what you did. You may blame yourself for the death of your family, but even you must admit that their deaths are not directly your fault. If Asgore kills himself because of what you did, the fault is yours as much as it is his.
Now, to answer your second question…you still wouldn't let them. For starters, people would know something was up if your sons disappeared and you didn't make a big fuss about it. Or you would feel that you started it, so you must finish it. Or you know that 1-S would murder you in your sleep. But you would still be lying to yourself. We both know you would not let them. And we both know the reason why.
-WickedBrony234
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WickedBrony234
I have a choice, A or B. If I choose B, Asgore dies. If I choose B, it does not matter if someone else did the deed, I'd be just as responsible as if I personally pulled the trigger, for I chose the option that I knew for certain would result in him dying. He will die as a direct result of my actions. So even if he would have been driven to death because of me, nothing would change, his death will be on my hands regardless of my attempts to save him.
OOC: Gaster got a lot of history on this subject
You are deluding yourself. It would not matter if society questioned their disappearance, and I do not care what they might do to me as a result. They will judge me, and they might even think I am responsible for their disappearance, but I would accept that. I am a horrible person, and I deserve any punishment they see fit to give me. I also wouldn't care if 1-S tried to kill me, he has many times before, and not only would I deserve it but his reappearance would mean that my successor had failed. There wouldn't be much reason to keep living.
-Dr Gaster.
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Dr. Gaster,
First of all, please tell me you know what PTSD and Survivor's Guilt are.
Secondly, you were right in that I've done some, as you call it, "snooping" into other dimensions. Do you know what a lot of them have in common? Because despite everything, Dr. Gaster, it's still you. Another version, perhaps, but still you. And I have a suspicion that other version would come out in certain circumstances.
-WickedBrony234
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WickedBrony234
I assume you are asking this as a lead-up to some argument, rather than an actually questioning my intelligence and as such insulting me. If my assumption is correct, you'd be best served to have actually included it in your letter, rather than delaying it for the time for me to get around to replying, and then have to wait further for your response.
And I doubt the veracity of using alternate dimension versions of myself as model for my behavior. They are all me in name only. If you go looking across the multiverse, I'm certain you can find a version of me who is almost indistinguishable from 2-P, and as such is nothing like the me. They are alternate versions of myself, something is inherently different, as proven by them existing in an alternate reality rather than everything being identical. Even small differences, such as a version of me who has not received your inter dimensional letters, lead to differences in behavior and as such different actions and priorities in pressing circumstances. An example, if the multiverse is truly infinite, then there is a version of me who will defend the brothers against a hypothetical successor, but that is just as true as there being a version of me who regathers my resolve and resumes the experiments. They are both just as much me, and as such basing observations off of version A to draw conclusions on me is faulty without also weighing version B equally, and even then you'd also have to observe versions C,D,E,F,etc.
-Dr Gaster.
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Dr. Gaster,
You are right. I was leading up to an argument. Namely, the argument that you have them. Don't try to deny it. The symptoms are all there. So, please. Go get help.
And while they may be alternate versions, I will repeat, they are still you. They are in you somewhere. I know this because stopped at all.
Besides, you are deluding yourself that there was no other option. I, myself, can name one MUCH less ethically questionable option that I'm willing to bet didn't even cross your mind.
-WickedBrony234
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WickedBrony234
I do not have PTSD, for I do not experience flashbacks, I do not avoid situations relating to the war anymore than usual, and I do not suffer from hyper-arousal. My view of the world has worsened, but that alone is called maturation, coming to better understand the world in which we live.
As for Survivor's Guilt, that is not a specific medical condition and as such has no simple list of symptoms. I do blame myself for their deaths, for I am to blame. Had I done something, anything, they might have survived, but instead I remained foolishly optimistic and pacifistic, believing that if we were just kind to each other no-one would have to suffer. That is not the way of the world.
You seem to have missed my point in regards to alternate versions of myself, but alright. There's a alternate version of myself who, after stopping, regathers his resolve restarts the experiments. There's a version of me who ends his suffering permanently. There's a version of me who goes insane and kills everyone. There's another who plans to end existence all together. There's one who in a desperate gambit decides to inject himself with surplus amounts of DT in become sufficiently human to cross the barrier and obtain the necessary souls to break the barrier before my soul experiences metaphysical cascade failure. They are all "still me", just as much as your more positive choices. They are "in me somewhere", and you can "know" because I, like them, stopped the experiments.
And what idea is that? Is it to try raising the test subjects humanely and to be science assistants? Not enough time, not even close. Take the human souls myself? Asgore has them hidden. Intercept the seventh human before Asgore can get them? He'd stop me before I can leave through the barrier. I can hardly list every single idea that you could possibly referring to, so you will have to tell me so I can inform you why it wouldn't work.
-Dr Gaster.
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Dr. Gaster,
PTSD has more side-effects than just flashbacks, you realize. As for your family…there was nothing you could have done to prevent their deaths, hard as you may try to believe otherwise. But I won't try to argue with you. I already know you will say to me what you said to 2-P, even if I argue you would not blame Asgore, Toriel, Asriel, Alphys, or anyone else for doing the same thing. As for my solution…
Just ask before you do the experiments. If you give an explanation as to what you're doing, and why you're doing it, I can guarantee you at least 2-P will be receptive to most of them. Maybe not all, but most.
As for there not being enough time for them to wait for them to mature into adults…I seem to recall that you accelerated their growth? Does that only happen in the M-D solution? If so, you would only need to soak them in it every once in awhile. Not only that, but you would have more powerful magic and more advanced minds to work with. Really, waiting until they're adults…unless they need to be children for the experiments, which from what I have seen, is not true…would actually be the better option from the results standpoint alone. Never mind the ethical one.
Also, what exactly is the difference between the boys and other monsters? From a biological standpoint, anyway. Couldn't you have asked for monster volunteers for your experiments? And if you needed skeletons…well, my dear doctor, I do believe I have another candidate. Was there a reason you could not use yourself for these experiments?
-WickedBrony234
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WickedBrony234
I know the symptoms of PTSD aren't just Flashbacks, there are also aversion tendencies and hyperarousal, neither of which I suffer.
Asgore and Toriel fought in the war. Asriel and Alphys were not alive yet.
Asking them would not work, for many of the experiments are necessarily painful and risky. You saw how the one laser experiment shattered most of 1-S's skull due to unexpected flux in power. Would you really expect them to continue despite that? What's more, there are facets of the experiments that 2-P still finds abhorrent, which he would never perform without 'persuasion'.
I could physically mature them into adults, not mentally. They must learn about the world normally, and while 1-S has shown remarkable mental acuity it would still take years for him to learn the subjects required to aid me. They might have more powerful magic physically from being matured into adults, but that is not what is required from the experiments, and would actually be a hindrance for they could more successfully use that power against me while still having the same mentality as they do now. And you are wrong in your assumption, them being physically children is needed for the experiments, the older a monster is the more solid their soul is, making it harder to change and experiment with.
The brothers are unique, in addition for them being the first examples of artificially created beings and as such generating wealth's of data in regards to creating more monsters via artificial means, they are also are modified since creation in numerous ways, the chief of which were developments to ensure increased receptivity to the experiments. And yes, their being skeletons does help, for a skeletons soul is more easilly accessible and modifiable than a normal monsters soul.
And really, are you really asking why I do not use myself as a test subject? Human Comics are full of examples of what can go wrong when a scientist experiments on themselves. The most important of them, is when the experiments end up intefering with the mental processes of the test subject in some way, a scientist would be unable to accurately interpret the results if they are themselves compromised. And that is just one way that things can go wrong or otherwise is far harder to perform on oneself instead of others.
-Dr Gaster.
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If he doesn't die in mercyplates then this means something happens... I blame Sans.
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Waitwaitwaitwait. Gaster has one working eye, the other is... dysfunctional. Could he not, rather than wear glasses, be able to wear a monocle? Perhaps it wouldn't work well, but now I really want to see Gaster with a monocle.
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please for the love of god let this holy envision exist
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Oh my goodness, Gaster would look SO COOL with a monocle! I can also envision him with a top hat, cane, and a nice suit. Dapper-Gaster.
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