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CodeHeaven β Stop saying you are my fan (Team 7 version)
#anime #anti #bullshit #gai #guy #haruno #harunosakura #hyuga #hyuganeji #lee #leeten #manga #metal #naruhina #naruto #neji #rock #rocklee #sakura #sasuke #sasusaku #shipping #shippuden #team #team7 #teamgai #tenten #uchiha #uchihasasuke #uzumaki #uzumakinaruto #wars #sarada #uchihasakura #team3 #teamguy #tentenlee #narutofandom #shippingwars #narutoships #3 #7 #antibullshit #uchihasarada #metallee
Published: 2016-02-12 21:36:12 +0000 UTC; Views: 4025; Favourites: 47; Downloads: 0
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It's okay to love a ship and support it 'til the end, no matter if canon, non-canon or crack. Shipping is all about love after all.But when you put that ship over the characters' happiness, when the ship being canon is the only thing that matters, then it's wrong to say to like the characters involved... it's wrong to say you are a fan of that character... you are not, you are just a radical shipper.
Team 3 version
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Comments: 72
They are two completely opposite characters in terms of goals and behaviour, so it's understandable.
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What's with this have the Fandom got to world war 3 over the creators decision to have Naruto with hinata and Sasuke with Sakura (well Sakura and Sasuke I can understand why but I digress) if the Fandom are so pissed because of that then why don't they make there own damn comic or make a fucking fanfic of who they think the characters are supposed to be with the creator of Naruto can do whatever the hell he wants it's his damn story. Do I personally think that Sakura should care about Sasuke no not personally but the fact that there's a Internet war 3 about this shit is really pretty stupid
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Indeed. I have no idea why fans take ships so seriously
My favourite pairings is not canon but I just don't go bitching around insulting people, raging over a fictional story or hating everything and everyone related to it XDD
Dammit, if you want to see x with Y just draw a fanart or write a fanfric (as you said). Shipping wars are so lame XD
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I know it sucks the joy out of everything. And the thing is the same logic I use is the same logic that can be used for the snowflakes that are rioting over trump being president (sorry for bringing this up) if they don't like someone being president they should just leave the US that will solve everyone's problems
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Me personally?
Naruto is my favorite fictional character of all time, and I admire a lot of things about him. But him marrying Hinata despite how underdeveloped their relationship was, made me really dislike the pairing. But Naruto himself will always be number 1 for me, as long as his character stays in tact.
Sakura is my most HATED fictional character of all time. She may have developed in terms of strength and abilities, but she has not done much to contribute to the story, and only slowed things down. She was meant to be the the female lead of the series, but she was more of a support, and a faux action girl.
I really like Sarada as a character. More so than Boruto, or any other new gen kid. But my issue with Sasuke is that many defend him because he was blinded by the Curse of Hatred that the Uchiha are known for, but I call bull, because he himself was willing to do nesesary damage to achieve his countless ambissions. Whether it's killing Itachi, Danzo, destroying the Leaf village, or becoming the "Hokage of the world", Sasuke did so on his own free will, and not through manipulations. Honestly, he deserved to die, or at least, be defeated at the hands of Naruto in their final battle.
The only good thing about team 7 (Besides Kakashi) is Naruto. While Sasuke had the wrong ambissions, and Sakura has nothing worthy, Naruto had motivation and determination, and he's the main reason I watch the series.
Please excuse my long comment.
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I'm sorry, Hinata IS far more useless where plot is concerned. What did she contribute? She wasn't even in the most important fight of the entire manga and she actually tripped on a rock. Like, really?
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My issue with Hinata is that she gets way too much credit than she deserves, and people going as far as to say she's "60% relevant", which is a load of bullshit. But the reason I hate Sakura more is because she's a major and important character to the story. Hinata is a supporting character. Yet Sakura achieved nothing.
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How? Without her, many lives would have been lost. Chiyo would not have defeated Sasori and Sasuke would have been dead by Gaara's hands in part I. Of course that's not all though. And please don't try to use the plot-no-jutsu with her aid against Kaguya. Did you honestly expect her to do nothing and let the boys do the saving when she could turn the tide in their favor? Kishi did say that he wanted to showcase her "heroine" side after his editors noted Hinata is more heroine-like. This was his answer to that.
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It took Sakura WAY too long to get to where she got. And when she started achieving something, she went nowhere with it.
- Defeated Sasori? Chiyo did most of the work.
- Sasuke would had died if it wasn't for her? Then she got captured and needed to be saved by him.
- Saved lives? *slow clap* .... Congratu-fucking-lations.... She did what medics and doctors do all the time...
Here's the problem with Sakura.
- She had to rely heavily on Naruto to get Sasuke back and couldn't do it herself.
- She lied to Naruto about her love for him so she could kill Sasuke herself.
- She did NOTHING of worthiness in part 1.
- She never got over Sasuke.
- When she had the chance to kill Sasuke in the bridge, she didn't, and he got away.
- She BEGGED to be a part of Sasuke's whatever (Can't remember correctly, don't quote me on that), and got jabbed by him because he always thought she was annoying.
- In chapter 700, instead of being a... oh I don't know, a doctor at the Leaf Village hospital or something, she became a house wife. Why? To watch over Sarada while Sasuke went god-knows where? You got your wish, Sakura. You got your man, left you alone with your daughter, and your career as a doctor was flushed down the toilet. I despise Sakura, but even I'M disappointed.
You see what the problem here is? SASUKE. A great majority of her problems are because of her feelings for Sasuke.
Bottomline, Sakura's CONs outweigh her PROs by a landslide.
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- Really? So did that make her lose her credibility because Chiyo "did most of the work"? Have you forgotten that Sasori's iron sand was lodge in one of her hands and she can't perform her best? If it weren't for her training with Tsunade, they wouldn't have managed to defeat those dolls. Chiyo would not have survived the battle to save Gaara's life and he in turn would not be present to help in the unity of the Five Shinobi Nations.
- Newsflash: Naruto was the one to save the day, not Sasuke. He was literally powerless against Gaara. He was only a back up at that point.
- And that IS precisely why she's important. Seriously, people conveniently ignored how important the medics are. And have you forgotten that before she summoned Katsuyu Sai stated many wouldn't be able to make it because they can't fight anymore as well as most medics are nowhere near the front lines to heal them? Wow, it's amazing how much downplaying medic nins get. Sakura is one of the two medics who CAN fight in the front lines and heal at the same time. Tsunade was even amazed that Katsuyu was with them BECAUSE they are on the front lines. Really now.
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Here's the facts about Sakura:
- She was the one with the least training among her teammates. Kakashi hardly bothered with her and by the time she was trained, the boys were already WAY beyond her capabilities.
- She was driven with guilt because of Sai's less than subtle way of handling the truth. And she did that to spare Naruto's feelings with the truth that Konoha already gave up on Sasuke and now ordered his execution. I'm also pretty sure Sai - the socially inept Sai of all people - pointed that as an act of her love to Sasuke. She wants to save him from himself. I wonder how you missed that.
- Nothing? Really? How about stalling the Sound Ninja from getting to Sasuke and killing him as well as taking care of both Naruto and him when they were unconscious? And how about stopping Sasuke from succumbing to the cursed seal? Or even the time where she taught Naruto how to gain chakra control? Let's not forget that she also saved Naruto from falling with a single kunai when SASUKE was trembling in fear against Orochimaru.
- Naruto never got over Sasuke either.
- Naruto and Kakashi BOTH didn't want to kill him. Sasuke ALSO failed to kill her because of his hesitation that allowed the other two to save her in time when he could have easily maimed her as easily as he did with Karin and Naruto. Rather slow for a fast shinobi to kill someone huh? Choking is not even an ideal killing blow.
- Totally ignored the context that she did it to give herself an opening to kill him and he only rejected her because of her hesitation that gave away her true intention. Anti much?
- Totally ignored the next installment that clearly showed her healing the affected during the fight with Momoshiki. Oh and let's just ignore the punch on Shin that saved the day. Yeah, okay.
You see what's the problem is? Your own twisted interpretations that ignored what the manga suggested. What you failed to realize? It was SASUKE who encouraged her to be stronger. Not Naruto or anyone else.
Bottomline, Sakura's Pros started because of SASUKE and they outweigh the Cons by a landslide.
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Hmmm.... what series were you reading for both boys to be out of her league by the time she was trained? Best I remember she was even with Naruto up until he started Sage training.
And technically Naruto had the least amount of training among them. If you actually go back and watch his fight at the end of part 1 and his fights in the first half of Shippuden the only difference youβll see is the Oodama Rasengan and him being more easily influenced by the Kyuubi.
whereas I had to rewatch the second bell test multiple times to make sure that was actually Sakura and not someone using aHenge to look like her.
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Ugh, Naruto's got too much of a plot armor and Sasuke's second it's not funny. They can't hope to match Sakura's powers that she achieved on her own and as a result of her training despite being the underdog of team 7.
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- If Gaara died, a new Kazekage would had been chosen. The Five Kage Summit would have happened, Sasuke would had invated, Tobi would had declared war on all of them, and the Shinobi alliance would had still happened. Not a big effect would be done if Chiyo didn't sacrifice herself for Gaara.
- That only proves my point further that Sakura did jackshit against Gaara.
Your facts about Sakura:
- Sakura may be booksmart, but she never showed potential in battle. That's most likely why Kakashi never bothered with her, and focused more on Naruto and Sasuke.
- And she still did NOT. THAT'S the point. Sakura wanted to save Naruto from himself, but didn't because of her feelings for Sasuke. Making her entire goal pointless.
- Oh the praise that goes into the little things she did. I give her props for helping Naruto with chakra control, and stopping Sasuke, but why did it take Rock Lee and Team 10 for her to stand up against the Sound Ninja? What did she do against Orochimaru? Naruto and Sasuke were already fighting against him while Sakura barely did anything. Oh she saved Naruto from falling? You tell me how many times Naruto and Sasuke needed to save HER.
- At least Naruto doesn't hesitate to fight against Sasuke. Sakura didn't even swing an attack on him throughout the entire series.
- He was going so swing a fully-charged Chidori at her. How is that not hesitating?
- I meant after they defeated Kaguya. Sakura was in tears begging for one more chance from Sasuke.
- Oh FINALLY!! Sakura did something MAJOR!!! Congratu-FUCKING-lations!! It took her 15 years and 700 chapters (Yes I'm exaggerating. Sorry).
On a more serious tone, I find Sasuke's encouragement hard to believe. Even if that's true, she hesitated and stood there everytime he arrived. After all the times he called her annoying, after telling her she's worse than Naruto, she should had taken these words and turned them around to show Sasuke that she was not what he called her. But she didn't. He still called her a nuisance by the time Shippuden was searching its end.
You know what Sakura is? A Faux Action Girl (Google it). A female character who has a great deal of abilities but did not do anything major with them. Oh what? Healed the entire alliance? Help defeat Sasori? Well props to her. She may have gained new abilities and skills throughout the series, but she couldn't use them again her main goal and main achievement...
...Sasuke.
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- And would that Kazekage actually have an actual relevance to the relation to Suna and Konoha? Looks like someone's actually forgotten that one of the reasons why the former's in good relation with the latter is because they already formed a bond through the kazekage and the then jinchuuriki-turned-hokage and one of the reasons why they were so supportive with what Konoha wants. I really don't think that the kazekage to replace Gaara would actually bother reaching out to Sasuke over destroyed bonds when it doesn't concern them. And I doubt that that kazekage would have the same resolve as Gaara did about friendship and shinobi in general or even have the same importance to the plot other than as a mere kage.
- Totally ignored the manga where it's shown that Gaara hesitated attacking Sakura because he remembered his uncle through her sacrifice and thus ultimately save Sasuke's life and preserve the plot in the process.
Still facts:
- Sakura actually did show potential. The first is her excellent chakra control which was stated to be above BOTH Sasuke and Naruto and thus she can use jutsu at its maximum without wasting strength. She also managed to plan traps that hindered the Sound Ninjas as well as demonstrate it against Zaku when he was tricked by one of the simplest jutsus: replacement. So yes, she did have combat smarts too. Sasuke himself acknowledged that her analytical ability and genjutsu know-how is superior to him without his Sharingan.
- Nope, it was NOT the point. She was trying to spare him from the PAIN of LOSING a FRIEND, not from HIMSELF. There's a difference. And besides, it's not like Naruto himself actually did went through his goal of dying with Sasuke either.
- Oh really now? And how many times had she saved them IN TURN? And again, that was not entirely her fault why she's so powerless when her teacher couldn't even care less about her. Tsunade was the one who actually changed her to the battle oriented kunoichi.
- He didn't have a choice. He couldn't convince him to come back so he settled on fighting him to forcefully drag him back which obviously didn't work.
- And it took a few panels for him to actually get near her to deal a killing blow unlike with Karin who got stabbed in a single panel. Too slow for someone of his speed.
- Nope, she didn't BEG him for one more chance. She was actually crying from relief that the team was now reunited for real. And she definitely didn't cry when Sasuke left on a journey either. Seriously, are we reading the same manga?
- It actually took you that long to notice her relevance at all? Poor you. Guess all those times she's displayed anything of importance just happened to pass you by.
That is your opinion and not what everyone believed. She did take them to heart and she did resolve to get stronger. What do you think was her speech about them looking at her back both during the FoD and the Fourth Shinobi War for? And I'm certain that his expression is actually not of a pissed off shinobi when he said that. It's actually the same way as him calling Naruto a loser that it's his trademark "pet name" for him and not meant as an insult.
Please don't try lecturing others about what a word means if you can't even bother reading the manga correctly.
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I'm going to keep this short.
- Does it matter? The five Kage Summit would had still happened after the events of The Invasion of Pain. And what if this new Kazekage DID keep the bond together?
- Even if he didn't attack her, he still pinned her down, and she still didn't do anything but TRYING to protect Sasuke while the curse mark was taking over him.
- Despite that, Kakashi still didn't pay enough attention to her in part 1? Such a shame.
- She still couldn't bring herself to stop him, though. Making her plan pointless.
- She wasn't powerless, she just didn't bother until Shippuden. Naruto, even without the Kyuubi, still came up with better tactics in battle, and was FAR more unpredictable than Sakura in part 1. Yet he's dumber. How is that possible?
- Naruto still doesn't hesitate to fight Sasuke, unlike Sakura.
- Sasuke was testing Sakura to see if she would really join him by killing Karin. When she didn't, Sasuke immediately tried attacking her.
- Nope, she didn't BEG him for one more chance.
--- Are you sure about that? i10.mangareader.net/naruto/693β¦
--- She clearly says, "If I still have a place in that heart of yours, even if it's just a little, please don't go!" If that's not begging, then I don't know what is.
- It didn't take me that long, it took HER that long.
By the time Sakura defeated Sasori in Shippuden, Naruto was already outsmarting S-rank ninjas like Zabuza in the beginning of part 1. Please explain that to me.
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- And that is already venturing on the what-ifs category.Β What if they DIDN'T?
- Far better option than getting killed, And it basically directly contradicted your earlier statement of her being useless. She did serve a purpose and that is to prevent Gaara from killing Sasuke as well as prepare Naruto against him and Shukaku.
- Precisely. It's more on the fact that he doesn't know what to do with her really.
- And it ended up more to their advantage later on in the fight in the Fourth Shinobi War because let's face it, without Sasuke they wouldn't be able to defeat Kaguya nor have additional strength to fight against Obito and the Juubi as well as Madara.
- Simple, she wasn't given focus. How did Sakura read Sasori again?
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She clearly demonstrated the analytical ability Sasuke deemed superior to him without his Sharingan. Let's face it, reading opponents this magnitude would require him to use his infamous eyes. Sakura achieved it just by watching and calculating the patterns.
- Again, he had no choice because unlike with Sakura, he's not as lenient with him.
As someone kindly summarized:
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- Oh so now you're using the correct context to prove your point? You basically contradicted your earlier statement that she "got jabbed by him because he always thought she was annoying". There's no need to expand on this.
- First, you stated that she "BEGGED to be a part of Sasuke's whatever (Can't remember correctly, don't quote me on that), and got jabbed by him because he always thought she was annoying." I already debunk this isn't the case. Second, the two is not even the same. She wasn't begging him to let her join him, she was telling him what she wanted to do.
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Of course, he's naturally suspicious with her because they're enemies. It's exactly why he's so quick to spot on her hesitation, thus the attempted stabbing which took several panels that still failed despite the much shorter distance. Third, begging includes desperation, Sakura didn't show it when she asked Sasuke in the Land of Iron. See the difference in your own example? She was crying and showing how desperate she is for him to come back. Lastly, she wasn't begging him to join him, she was begging that he return and restore things the way they were before. Again, a direct contrast to your claim. "Please don't go" and "I'm abandoning the Leaf Village and coming with you" is hardly similar after all.
- Nope, it took you that long. Whatever happened to her prior feats before chapter 700? ALL of THEM? Went down the drain?
Naruto didn't outsmart Zabuza. It was his talk-no-jutsu that made him change his heart and even then he didn't managed to defeat him because Kakashi did all the work. Most of his part 1 feats of outwitting are a result of people underestimating him.
Now if these aren't proof of your anti sentiments I don't know what is.
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- Whether Gaara lived or died, whether the bond was kept or not, the Five Kage Summit arc would had still happened, and Tobi would had still declared war, making Chiyo's sacrifice pointless.
- You're giving her way too much credit for something so small. If it wasn't for Naruto, both Sasuke and Sakura would had been doomed at the hands of Gaara.
- Because she didn't show potential. She may have brains, but even that wasn't enough to impress Kakashi, or even Sasuke. And thus, Kakashi put little focus on her.
- And if it wasn't for Kakashi, Sasuke would had killed Sakura at the Samurai Bridge, and she wouldn't had been able to heal the military. Kakashi deserves credit here.
- It took her until Shippuden to show usefulness, but Naruto was already being very useful at the beginning of part 1. My question is, why the hell did it take her this long?
- Of course Sasuke is not as lenient with Naruto as he is with Sakura. Because Naruto has shown that he is worth Sasuke's time, and Sasuke knows what he's capable of. Sakura has shown time and time again that she's not worth Sasuke's time, and just leaves her be.
- I was referring to what happened after Kaguya's defeat. After Sakura BEGGED for one more chance, what happened? images.mangafreak.net/mangas/nβ¦
Yup, he jabbed her.
"You're.... such an annoyance." - Sasuke
I'm pretty sure our can read it yourself.
- Her prior feats? Not that they went down the drain, they just aren't as impressive as what Naruto, Sasuke, and Kakashi have done. She helped defeat Sasori? Finally. She healed the entire shinobi alliance? Well points to her. Now she's a housewife.
- "Naruto didn't outsmart Zabuza. It was his talk-no-jutsu that made him change his heart." So I guess this doesn't count?
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Keep 'em coming, buddy.
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- You know what Gaara is? He's the foreshadowing as well as a foil to Naruto. He is what Naruto would've become had Iruka said the wrong thing to Mizuki. He's opened the possibility that Naruto CAN become a Kage despite his jinchuuriki status. You know what else Gaara made possible?
- Gaara was the one quelled the petty grievances between the shinobi and gave the Allied Forces a sense of unity.
- Gaara was the one who defeated one of the most powerful resurrected shinobi in the form of Rasa, his father.
- Gaara was the one who provided the transportation for Naruto to reach Minato in time before he died due to Kuramaβs extraction.
- Bonus: Gaara understood Naruto better than anyone (excluding and perhaps even more so than Bee) what it is and what it takes to live as a hated one for the most part of his childhood as well as what it takes to be a Kage.
So here's the thing: Gaara's life DID matter. Chiyo's sacrifice DID matter. Rasa wouldn't be as easy to defeat had his opponent been anyone else and had Gaara stayed dead he would've been resurrected and used against Naruto and thereby hindering him more.
- And that something so small is more than enough to alter the course of the story. After all, Kishi made it perfectly clear that when Naruto evolves, he had to take Sasuke into consideration too. You simply can't deny that Sasuke's death there would've been a HUGE change to the story. In fact, there are many instances where Sakura managed to preserve the plot. This is just one of them.
- Ironic because it was Sasuke who cheered her up and noted her analytical and genjutsu know-how as superior to him. Ironic that Kakashi was the one to state that she is suitable for genjutsu and noted that she is superior to both Naruto and Sasuke in terms of gathering chakra from every part of the body and use it with great timing during her fight against Ino and her perfect chakra control as a rookie as well as the first to foreshadow that she will surpass Tsunade someday. How's that for no-show of potential?
- Ah but my point here is unlike Karin's and Naruto's treatment, Sasuke is more lenient to her. I'm not saying Kakashi didn't have a role to play in there because he does. I'm definitely certain that I had stated that he failed to kill her because his hesitation allowed both Naruto and Kakashi managed to arrive on time. As I stated, he impaled Karin much faster than he did on his attempt at Sakura. It should be noted that Karin's distance from Sasuke is wider than that of Sakura's yet he still failed on the latter.
- Again, she already started showing her usefulness during part 1 for crying out loud. This is especially during the FoD part. Goodness. You already got part of my answer to this but you still insists? Denial sure is strong.
- Very ironic that Sasuke shows respect for Sakura's skills more than he did with Naruto.
- In a freaking GENJUTSU which is more than he ever did for Karin and Naruto. Sakura was even shown to be merely waking up after the genjutsu wore off which means that it's not even remotely as painful as the genjutsu Kakashi had against Itachi or any genjutsu-induced pain thus far. It only knocked her out. And was his face annoyed when he said that? Definitely not. If you think so, you'll need glasses bro.
- Not as impressive, yes but no less as relevant as theirs. Wew, the downplay is real, again. And where was her aid on Obito's Kamui to save Sasuke? As I just read/watch he clearly stated that Naruto's Kyuubi form clone is not enough to sustain it and Sakura ensured a bare minimum requirement to pull it off. They were able to open several dimensions with Sakura healing him at the same time. Of course there are other important feats as well. This is just one example of the feats you ignored because what you're basically saying is all Sakura feats prior to Chapter 700 is irrelevant.
- In the same way you didn't count Sakura's feats because they "aren't as impressive as what Naruto, Sasuke, and Kakashi have done". See how I turned your major arguments against you?
Same to you too. Read/re-read the manga while you're at it.
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Here's the point I'm trying to make.
You can list all of the positives Sakura has. You can say how smart she is, how good she is at genjutsu, how good at chakra manipulation she is, any positive she has. Good for her, she has positives. But here's my point. In part 1, she did LITTLE with it.
Oh what? She helped Naruto with Chakra manipulation? Well good. She lend a hand. Too bad Naruto had already done something greater by outsmarting Zabuza before that.
She protected Naruto and Sasuke at the Forest of Death from the sound ninja? Yeah she finally got her ass up after Rock Lee and Team 10 protected her, and after her minimal time to shine, Sasuke took the spot.
And let's get something out of the way. We shouldn't give credit to who saves who, who dies, and how it affects the storyline, because anyone can save any character, and it could have whatever effect on the story. The reason why I mentioned my points regarding that topic is because I was going along with what you said. So I take those back. But now in fact, we should treat all those events equally. Chiyo sacrificing her life to save Gaara? Naruto saving Sakura multiple times? Sakura teaching Naruto about Chakra control? It's worth giving credit to all of them, but none should overlap the other.
It's like I said earlier. She's a Faux Action Girl.
Check out the TV Tropes Wiki regarding the topic tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.phpβ¦
And guess whose quote is at the top of the page~
And what I'm constantly telling you is that it took Sakura TOO long to achieve a high level of usefulness. Those tiny moments in part 1? Sure. Props to her for helping Naruto with Chakra control and for having limited time to shine at the forest of death. Point is, while they are positives, all those moments pale in comparison to what Naruto was already capable of in part 1.
It wasn't until Shippuden where she actually showed how much she improved, and by then the damage had already been done.
But you know what? I admit. You made a valid point about Rasa and Gaara, and I was wrong about what I said about Chiyo. So I will give you that.
"I'm a shinobi, too, but I'm always crying and relying too much on Naruto. I came here thinking that I was past all that... but still, I hesitate. I haven't really prepared myself at all. I can't do anything, I can't say anything... All I can do... is to trust them!"
Ladies and gentlemen, Sakura Haruno. One of the worst female protagonists in Japanese entertainment.
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Look, here's my take on the entire thing: It's pointless to list things a character has ever done if the other party is already dead set on ignoring those things. It's already obvious to me that you ignore anything regarding Sakura but you sure pay attention to every little thing Naruto (as well as Kakashi/Sasuke) did. This double standard is exactly why I hate prolonging the argument.
Forget it. I'm no longer interested in the whole thing. But one thing's for sure: Sakura is not the one who is useless. Fans like you are the ones who claimed she is. It doesn't matter whatever feats she'll do because in the end, haters gonna hate. Quite frankly, I'm tired of your BS.
I'm out.
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"I haven't really prepared myself at all. I can't do anything, I can't say anything... All I can do... is to trust them!"
Just remember which character said that
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"Tsunade-sama, I finally caught up to them!"
Just remember which character said that.
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"I finally caught up to them!"
Finally?? And it only took her 15 years and almost 700 chapters. Thanks for confirming that she was always below them.
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And so does literally every other Konoha ninjas and the entire shinobi in general INCLUDING Kakashi. Guess who actually felt useless in the near end against Kaguya? Kakashi. Without Obito's help, he wouldn't be of use aside from shielding his body and I don't see you making a big deal about that.
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Here's the thing. Every other Leaf ninja, and the every shinobi in general, they're not main characters. They're not protagonist. They're not as important as Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura, and Kakashi. So it doesn't matter that they're below Naruto and Sasuke. Sakura however, IS a protagonist, and it's inexcusable that it took her THIS long to finally be useful.
And? Without each other, Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura wouldn't had been able to defeat Kaguya alone. Besides, Kakashi had already shown a huge amount of usefulness throughout the entirety of the series (You know, that one thing that took Sakura too long to show).
So thank you again. Thank you for confirming that Sakura was far below Naruto and Sasuke this whole time for such a long time.
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Look, as I said, it's just you who took this long to see how useful Sakura is. So that is no longer my problem.
EXACTLY. They all play a role to win that fight so I don't understand why you only focus on Naruto and Sasuke in terms of usefulness when Naruto could've died way before that and Sasuke remain stuck in a desert dimension. And it's not my fault you like to play double standards to see when and where as well as the how useful a character is.
I'm not denying that because it's the truth. But! Please don't ignore that they actually have something to be inferior to her: intelligence and chakra control and it was never restated that they managed to pass her on that regard.
'kay?
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Have you been ignoring what I've been saying? I acknowledged that Sakura has better chakra control, I acknowledged that she's smarter, I'm aware she defeated Sasori, I give her points for showing Naruto about chakra control, and I know she healed the entire shinobi alliance. Those are all props I give her for what she did throughout the series. But the PROBLEM is, it wasn't until Shippuden where she put these positives into SERIOUS use. Why are you ignoring this??
Because this debate was about Sakura, and comparing her to Naruto and Sasuke. The Shinobi alliance had nothing to do with this debate in the first place until you decided to bring them up to make your point not seem as bad.
And of course Sakura is better at something than Naruto and Sasuke, like chakra control, and intelligence. But what she ISN'T better at them, is progression, and story relevance.
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Really? It really wasn't me who ignored that she was able to prevent Sasuke and Naruto's deaths in FoD against the Sound Ninja nor was I the one to ignore that she actually contributed as far back as part I.
It's natural for her to be behind them in terms of story because 1) one of her teammates is the titular character and 2) the other one is needed for the titular character to have as a rival and motivation for crying out loud!
If you think I ignored things maybe you should evaluate your criteria for a character's worth first. It's not how awesome they can do that counts, it's how they affect the story in general. In the same way that a little rock can cause ripples in a still water. Or have you forgotten that it wasn't Naruto's power that changed Nagato's heart nor was it the one to turn Obito to his side? No? Then let me remind you that he conquered enemies because of his talk-no-jutsu and not because he's stronger than them. Sasuke was the only exception. Definitely sound so lame if words are enough to defeat enemies because no power play is involved right? After all you ignored Sakura's feats because they're, as you said, "not as impressive as Kakashi, Sasuke and Naruto" and let me tell you that by that logic, the baddies who lost their will and change hearts because of some pretty words are weak then, because Naruto didn't use any power to turn them the right way. Nor was it impressive that almost anything gets solved by the famous talk-no-jutsu. Lame, right?
Then again, knowing you, you'll just spout some BS why it's still impressive and why Sakura's is not the same.
Whatever makes you sleep at night I suppose.
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We already discussed why characters should be praised equally for who saves who.
I already stated that Naruto was doing impressive things like outsmarting Zabuza before Sakura taught him about chakra control in part 1.
There's a difference between "Ignoring her feats", and "Not as impressive".
It seems you don't know the difference between them.
"Naruto didn't use any power to turn them the right way."
By your logic, Naruto should just beat the crap out of them until suddenly they say "I'm a good guy now!!"
"Naruto didn't use any power-"
- Naruto outsmarted Zabuza before his talk with him
- Naruto defeated Haku before his talk with him
- Naruto talked to Neji DURING his fight with him
- Naruto fought Gaara before his talk with him
- Naruto defeated Pain before his talk with Nagato
- Naruto was fighting a war before his talk with Obito
You were saying?
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Yes, but the issue here is you are quick to dismiss any of Sakura's feats because you don't think they're as impressive as that of Kakashi, and the rest of her teammates. And please, I know there's a difference between "not as impressive" and "ignoring feats" with one directly stated and the other implied and I seriously recall you using both to justify why ALL of Sakura's feats don't matter and that it took her so long as to be badass as the rest of them.
Oh FINALLY!! Sakura did something MAJOR!!! Congratu-FUCKING-lations!! It took her 15 years and 700 chapters.
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Her prior feats? Not that they went down the drain, they just aren't as impressive as what Naruto, Sasuke, and Kakashi have done.
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Finally?? And it only took her 15 years and almost 700 chapters. Thanks for confirming that she was always below them.
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You were saying?
And I'm saying that Naruto's outsmarting of Zabuza is no more as impressive as Sakura outsmarting the Sound Nin by herself. Why? Because unlike Naruto, she wasn't a combat-oriented ninja then but she still managed to put up a fight. You know what else is impressive? The fact that she was able to move a branch more than twice as big as her without any difficulty just to pull off her trap and without help when she's naturally weaker than both Naruto and Sasuke. And the fact that she was able to break Ino's mind control during their fight - something deemed unprecedented. Which means Sakura broke a record for getting out of a mind control as strong as that of the Yamanaka's by herself. Naruto may have been the catalyst but no amount of cheering could've helped Sakura if she didn't have the necessary strength to pull it off. Just look at Hinata.
And by your logic (which you already pretty much establish anyway) only those who are strong protagonists are useful and medic ninjas with super strengths don't deserve any credit for what they did because they're just doing their job. So they're useless anyway. That's all they're good for right?
Sakura however, IS a protagonist, and it's inexcusable that it took her THIS long to finally be useful.
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And you may claim that no feats should overlap each other, so why are you claiming that Sakura's feats before ch.700 doesn't matter because "they're not as impressive as Kakashi, Sasuke and Naruto"? Contradicting yourself much?
It's worth giving credit to all of them, but none should overlap the other.
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"....it's inexcusable that it took her THIS long to finally be useful"
- Sakura successfully deceived an opponent stronger than her only through basic jutsu
- Sakura defeated an unbreakable jutsu as the very first one to do so
- Sakura went from a useless fangirl to a badass kunoichi in just a short amount of time
- Sakura perfected the requirements of medical ninjutsu which requires 1) great deal of knowledge, 2)perfect chakra control 3) resolve to never give up, which is deemed extremely difficult.
- Obtained the super strength which requires just as extremely precise chakra control and the ability to assess the situation.
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Never forget that the two boys ARE inferior in some aspects. Just reminding you that.
- Sakura was able to save lives while simultaneously fighting for her life
- She was the only one who managed to master the pinnacle of chakra control outside Tsunade
- Her analytical prowess aided her in her fight against Sasori and Zetsu's deception as well as trick three of her fellow classmates at the same time
- Successfully cured a poison even someone far older than her and literally every other expert failed to do
- Cured herself from the stabbing she received from Sasori. Let's face it, Naruto's healing is only because of Kurama's aid inside him
- The second med-nin who was able to fight in the frontlines.
- Healed all ninjas inside the barrier when all hope of medication was lost due to being in said frontlines.
- Possessed enough chakra to aid Obito's jutsu and supported it enough to open several dimensions.
You were saying?
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About Sasoriβs poison... itβs stated that no one in Suna had ever seen that makeup before. Chiyo also states if she knew the ingredients she could possibly make an antidote. The lore goes on to state that Chiyoβs forte was creating poisons; that being said making antidotes to HER poisons is to be expected. And Chiyo speculated that Sasori had surpassed her in terms of poison making meaning until Sakura demonstrated just how far Tsunade took her training the only person whom could hope to heal Kabuto was Tsunade.
Just more evidence to contradict Sakura having less training than Naruto.
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Did you ignore the part in which I acknowledged Sakura's feats? Because I'm pretty sure you ignored the part in which I acknowledged Sakura's feats. How is that dismissing? You do NOT know the difference between ignoring, and not as impressive.
It took Rock Lee and Team 10 to get her ass up. Why does it take 4 people to make her stand up for herself in an exam in which she HAS to stand up for herself at ALL costs? Besides, Naruto took on a dangerous wanted jonin-level ninja that even Kakashi had difficulty with. No, Naruto didn't defeat him, but he freed Kakashi from him. Three little genin sound ninjas do not compare to someone as dangerous as Zabuza.
Sakura breaking out of a mind control? Will you look at that. Another positive on Sakura's already-low PROs. Not by much either because Naruto helped her break out of it. So points to both her and Naruto.
You don't need to be a ninja, a medic, or a random person to be useful. You need to show effort. Sakura may have had all those little PROs in part 1, but it took her too long to reach Naruto and Sasuke's heights. Moving a branch twice her size IS impressive, but it doesn't compare to defeating a major villain and helping save a village in the progress (Naruto Vs Gaara).
I didn't say feats, I said who saves who.
"We shouldn't give credit to who saves who, who dies, and how it affects the storyline, because anyone can save any character, and it could have whatever effect on the story."
You linked that comment, I would had expected you to read it.
Naruto was already outsmarting and defeating major villains and powerful ninjas before Sakura did any of that. THAT'S what I mean by it took her too long. That's what you refuse to understand.
I love how you're copying me. You've been doing that since this debate started.
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I seriously love how you miss points don't you? It certainly shows in the way you miss precisely why I would always recall your previous words. Shows how much tunnel vision played a part in your argument.
Don't bother replying. I'm tired of your BS for real this time. There's just no leeway for those who refuse to even open up from their narrowed view.
Bye.
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Punching a stone and breaking it =/= Punching a mountain and destroying it
Saving a random person =/= Saving an entire village
Defeating a minor character =/= Defeating a major villain
Achieving big things years later =/= Achieving big things at the beginning
Getting hurt by just standing there =/= Getting hurt in a fight
Begging someone to comeback by crying =/= Begging someone to come back without being afraid to fight said person
Housewife =/= Hokage
Sakura =/= Naruto (Or Sasuke)
But if you want to end it here, that's fine with me.
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Not understanding the point that each person has a role and that Sakura actually did play a part in saving many lives in Shippuden as a healer (because that's where her job is) as well as the fact that as the titular main protagonist, Naruto is bound to be higher on the food chain so to speak, well I can't say how much downplay is here when basically all the rookie 9 had to catch up to Sakura just to show their strength (and yes, it also matters because some side characters were stronger than both Naruto and Sasuke before Rikudou Sennin gave them power ups) as well as the fact that you just basically made your arguments in circles.
You said: any of those feats they did should not overlap.
Yet you basically made a compilation why one is not equal to the other. Isn't that overlapping?
You said: it took her ch. 700 to finally be useful.
A direct contradiction that as far back as part 1 is concerned, Sasuke and Naruto would've died without Sakura.
Sakura =/= Naruto (Or Sasuke)
This is correct. But you definitely made it seem that she doesn't have anything that she is better than them and at the same time assert that she does have and yet still assert she's inferior anyway. Rinse, and repeat.
Not only that, you failed to note that Naruto may be a Hokage but he sure failed where it matters most: his family, the one he longed for but can't even handle properly. Sakura may be a houswife but she is still a medic. Or have you forgotten where she healed Hinata during Boruto the movie?
As I already stated, you like to take note of the little things Naruto had done but you ignore Sakura's even going so far as to passive-aggressively assert that she's useless.
Yeah, it's official: Denial is real.
And yeah, I'm tired with this never ending stream of exchange where the other party can't even set straight what he wants to stand for without any ass pulls, double standards and denials.
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She healed people and gained immense strength in Shippuden. I already gave her props for that. But guess what! It took her too long to each THAT level of usefulness!
Oh really? Since you love keeping track of comments so much, show me the EXACT quote in which I said feats should not be overlapped. Go on. Show me.
I previously acknowledged Sakura's feats. Smart, huge strength, great medic. The problem? You didn't pay attention when I said I acknowledged them. (Alsoshetooktoolongtogetthere )
I haven't seen the Boruto movie, but Naruto has an entire village to take care off. Just like how Hiruzen could barely be there for Naruto when he was a kid, because of his Hokage status.
And if Sakura healing Hinata (One of the most overrated characters in the series) is one of her best PROs, then that's just laughable. If she healed Naruto or Sasuke (Or even Boruto) in the movie, THEN I'll praise her.
"you like to take note of the little things Naruto had done-"
The little things?
Learning a jounin-level jutsu in just one night?
Outsmarting Zabuza while Sakura just stood there?
Defeating Gaara and helping save the Leaf Village while Sakura was pinned down?
Defeating Pain?
.... The little things?
^^^^^
Also, how are those ass pulls? They're actual facts from the series that Naruto accomplished.
Oh what are you going to do next? Make a list of Sakura's achievements? You might as well just go ahead and do it since you've been copying me throughout those whole debate.
It's not my fault you're such an easy bait.
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Hiruzen is definitely not someone you want to use in an argument about putting the village first. After all he did let Orochimaru waltz out of the village when he had Orochimaru dead to rights... he also refused to kill Danzo off when he had the man on ironclad treason charges. Probably shouldnβt use Tsunade, Jiraiya, or Minato either. Iβd also hesitate to useKakashi for that matter.
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This is a year-old debate, but I didn't say Hiruzen put the village first, I said he didn't have time for Naruto when he was a child because of his (Hiruzen's) Hokage status.
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I'm sorry Sasuke but my heart broke when I read that chapter where Karin was the mother. But I then went to heaven when we learn that a troll was behind it all.
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Why would your heart break because of that? he was married to Sakura, not Karin. XD
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I know but the time it was heartbreaking on so many levels.
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In my case I would love TenTen to be Metal's stepmother.
I'm missing a Iruka-Naruto like bond in this next-gen.
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Ending should be open, without pairings, with Naruto as Rokudaime Hokage. Kishimoto wanted to continue only because he wants more moeny.
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I 100% agree with you
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Yes, despite the fact that I am one of people which don't agree with pairings at end, but in my opinion ending should be open, so it wouldn't be those arguments. But there are some points which Kishimoto did that I don't like.
Mainly thing that I hate in ending is fact that Naruto is terrible father and he isn't Rokudaime. And in my opinion, Naruto should kill that traitor Sasuke. It's a shame that Jiraiya is dead and Sasuke is still alive...
And I don't like how battles at end was...you know, at the beginning of the manga I thought that we will see Naruto who was nothing but dead-last and in the future he will be the strongest character who at end kill "the last antagonist" like Madara and what we get? Pseudo battle with pseudo-teamwork(to be honest, team 7 never existed) against Kaguya and even more pathetic battle Naruto vs Sasuke which ended in a draw...really, last battles was like some stupid filler. The last battle should be Naruto vs Madara, it's my opinion, Naruto is main character so he should kill him by himself, without help from others.
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Someone needed to say something! I applaud you!
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Seriously NS fans never STFU!
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I honestly donβt see why NaruSaku fans stayed around. The only thing Kishimoto could have done to make it more obvious NaruSaku was dead back before Sasuke even went rogue was to throw a party and hold a press conference over it.
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