KanaYukino [2017-02-15 10:07:03 +0000 UTC]

Lol. Reminds me when I judged one artist on copying ASK's style (she has a patreon) and she got defended by bunch of people saying 'you can't copyright a style'. 

Technically as I recently found out, a distinctive style can be copyrighted. I heard it in a speech about fan art copyrights. Apparently if you use someone famous's style for profit, you can get a law suit, but it's gotta be a very distinctive style. 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKBsTU…

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Missy--May [2017-02-07 05:36:07 +0000 UTC]

Such a great journal! 

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xxRisunaxx [2016-09-20 17:59:12 +0000 UTC]

I never knew that quote was shortened before - I enjoyed reading this entry, you made some very good points about the subject that many people need to be aware of & learn from

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AbyLockhart [2016-03-28 21:01:02 +0000 UTC]

This. Completely agree. 

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ceinchase [2016-03-26 05:39:57 +0000 UTC]

I always found it odd that even copying someones mere IDEA of a written work is considered plagiarism but the same is not said of a drawing.

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ZebraZahara [2016-03-25 23:50:43 +0000 UTC]

This made me think of forgers. To be honest, I've always found the practice of forgery to be highly impressive. I mean, some of these people can imitate brush strokes to the point where you can hardly tell them apart from the original. It's amazing in it's own right, but there's no "you" in it; it's all just a mirror of someone else's work. That's where there's something missing. That painting that was forged or that style so perfectly copied, it's just a shadow of someone else's hard work with no substance or story or personality behind it. There's nothing to connect us to copied work, it's empty.

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GiuliaRiotti [2016-03-23 12:48:04 +0000 UTC]

I agree with everything you said.

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AkutamaHan [2016-03-23 00:13:13 +0000 UTC]

palms

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D0-lT [2016-03-22 22:31:56 +0000 UTC]

This is a great read. Now when someone says "you can't copyright a style", I'll just say "you can't make it morally right either way"

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Crystal-Mint [2016-03-22 12:45:03 +0000 UTC]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I looked up the quote and apparently Charles Caleb Colton said it first?? (And he was alive before Oscar Wilde, so unless all of these citations are wrong, I'm guessing Wilde just copied the original quote and added that second part lol)

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AimForrest [2016-03-22 07:39:40 +0000 UTC]

Very nicely said. I always try to come up with my own unique styles, though I will occasionally take inspiration from other styles I see. Even then, however, I always give the original artist credit.

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CK-Hollows [2016-03-22 02:45:16 +0000 UTC]

i think that really standard styles, particularly in the anime genre, can in fact be boring
because you just start to see it everywhere

but with that said...i dont think everyone wants to or has to have an original style (which its nearly impossible to be that original anyway)
there's a lot of work for people that are comfortable operating with an existing style that a whole lot of people find really appealing
so its not something i would really stress about as far as it pertains to a career in art
its probs more of a personal concern than anything

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Cherielou [2016-03-21 14:15:39 +0000 UTC]

"Style is a very personal thing, especially in art. It's either something you create or discover, but in any case you end up polishing for years."
"Having someone coming and taking it, investing only a 5% of their time to learn how to copy it, and then exposing it as something of their own creation (and sometimes making profit off it), well... I agree it's not illegal. But how low is that?"

These lines are my favorites, I feel that if someone considers themselves a true artist they would take great pride in creating a style that is their own, drawn from their own vision as well as learning from their inspirations, working with it, and polishing for years, now that is an achievement! Even if you may not be 100% happy with it all the time it is continuous evolution and part of the creative process that I love so much. Ripping someone's style off for money or, and calling it your own is just downright low, I don't know how someone can ever feel good about that. Thankfully most commissioners recognize what they are doing and avoid them.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this, it was a great read!

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UsagiYogurt [2016-03-21 12:23:43 +0000 UTC]

Very good journal on the subject.

I took a lot of inspiration from Yukiru Sugisaki when I first read D.N.Angel when I was much younger. I loved her work. I would copy some things from the manga when making D.N.Angel doujinshi and sometimes even when making my own art because I loved her style. I've since stopped copying, and I have a style of my own, but I am still inspired by her work. Sometimes I see my style changing without me really noticing or trying to forcibly change it. It's very cool to me to see it change without me intending it.

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FTYeaN [2016-03-21 12:21:43 +0000 UTC]

^This. This is a great post.

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jabbathemutt [2016-03-20 21:33:27 +0000 UTC]

You have a very good point.
This is why I'm trying to develop a style, To get inspiration and study anatomy.

It's fine to take some parts from a style but It's NEVER okay to copy it.

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Lentyrn [2016-03-20 21:05:56 +0000 UTC]

I feel inspiration is seeing where you need to improve by looking at the art of others.
When you just imitate you don't get the experimentation that leads to a personal style.

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Carolineshox [2016-03-20 17:12:10 +0000 UTC]

^THIS

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Yuukon [2016-03-20 16:34:34 +0000 UTC]

Well said, well said!

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some1eleven [2016-03-20 15:22:08 +0000 UTC]

I have to say, that was a joy to read An excellent journal and a good fuel for thoughts. I think the whole thing is even more complicated, though.

"I wonder what would happen if person A started imitating person B's personality and mannerisms to the point of wearing the same clothes, dying their hair the same color as person B's, copying not only their gestures and facial expressions but also their ideas and way of thinking, and when person B asked them to stop, person A said "but you can't copyright how you are!"."

Most likely, Person A would be distressed above all. How do they know so much about me? How long did they stalk me to get that knowledge? How much did they invade my privacy? Then, on top of that, it would feel very much like the other person is trying to replace Person A. If they can take away the way I act, then what else are they going to take? My whole life? Would there even be a place for two of us? Will I have to end up fighting for my own place in the world?

But then, it also depends on who is the imitator. What if the person who imitates me was a teenager? I would think that's the most natural thing in the world. Imitating grown-ups is how s/he discovers who s/he wants to be. At some point, s/he will crystalise his/her own personality, but right now they're just not ready.  In fact, if I raged that teenagers 'rip off my personality', it'd make me a pretty immature adult. I should worry whether I'm good enough role models for these budding human beings instead.
I think it's not quite the same with art, but the same principles apply. The biggest difference is that in art, we often don't see who is still an 'artistic teenager'.

"Style is something very personal and if you purposely dedicate your time to learn how to replicate it without adding anything of your own, you're literally saying you don't respect the original artist and you're actually harming yourself by not allowing yourself to grow. If you think you can't help but getting heavily influenced by them, then find more inspirations, mix them together, make your own interpretation of that mix, find some more, expand your horizons. There's always a solution when you have the intention."

I think GUWEIZ made some very respectable points about it in their journal about the topic . By Wilde's definitions, they admit that they feel mediocre. And there's nothing wrong with it. In fact, we all start mediocre. It's a natural order of things. Mediocrity isn't an obstacle to overcome; it's something we mature out of. And, just as you said, that takes time. It means that for that time, we WILL be mediocre. There's nothing we can do about it, except for accepting it and growing in patience.
And yes, it takes time. All of it. Developing your own style takes time. Getting over the artists who influence you takes time. Moving on to new inspirations takes time. It's not something you 'do' because someone told you to in a blog or a journal. You have to be ready for it first. That's how growth works, whether physical, mental or the growth of skills.

"Of course many interpretations can be made, but considering he is a writer with one of the biggest egos in history, I think what he meant was that from the moment you start imitating someone else you become mediocre, and what's worse, by being mediocre you're letting other people be greater than you."

That's the problem, actually. It isn't mediocrity, it's that we're not allowed to be mediocre.

We're expected to be fully grown from the start. Mediocrity is bad, even though it's something natural. If we show it, we immediately get scorned for it, either in criticism or just by being ignored. Our abilities, the stage of our artistic life, all the hard work we're putting into shaping ourselves - they don't matter. There are no extra points for 'doing something way out of your comfort zone', 'pushing yourself hard' or 'trying out something we didn't master yet'. It's all about the end result. If we don't show greatness, here and now, we're worthless.
That's a nightmare environment for inexperienced artists. Being new means mediocrity by definition, so in that mindset, nothing they do has any merit. In that sense, improvement quickly turns into something they do out of obligation. They don't grow; they just desperately try to stop being mediocre. 
That pressure is also a natural breeding ground for copy-cats. From that perspective, growing into greatness with your own power makes no sense. You have to sacrifice plenty of time and strength on something that punishes you for not being 'good enough yet' all the time. Then, if years of these sacrifices don't break you, you finally start to reap the rewards of it. Will they even compensate you for everything you invested? Let alone bring you any profit? What good will having your own style do - except for some misplaced pride in your senseless effort?
Copying the style of others seems much more sensible. It brings you maximum product quality at minimum expenses - and the way things are, that's the only thing that matters. And that's the real root of the problem: In our environment, artistic maturity just doesn't pay off. It's not even that being a copycat is more profitable. It's that the costs of individual greatness are too high.

You sure are right that it's a big problem, but I believe the root of isn't just in copying. It's our attitude towards growth and mediocrity that supports copycats. We need to turn growth itself into something valuable - not for the greatness it'll bring one day, but for its own sake. We have to pat the budding artists on the back more often and make them feel respected for their effort and courage, not their results. We need to put more shame on the 'ends are everything, means are nothing' mindset. Most of all, we have to make mediocrity acceptable. Everyone is mediocre at some point, and that's okay. We shouldn't encourage it, but we definitely shouldn't scorn it, either. It's just a natural stage in artistic life.  Mediocre artists copy the styles of others, and that's just mediocre. Nothing less, nothing more

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Rott-i-kins [2016-03-20 15:05:33 +0000 UTC]

I was actually just thinking about this the other day. I agree with you mostly but I also disagree with you on a few points. I think people should continue to kind of build on their style as they go on and sometimes that may mean stealing aspects of other artist's styles. Taking inspo as you go is not really a bad thing it just means you are finding what you like still and applying it. I'm still looking for directions to take my style all the time and kind of building a collection of artists that I admire so I can kind of find a direction to take my work. Taking inspiration and copying are two absolutely different things though.

Not naming names but a friend and I were flicking around through a part of deviantart that was basically 20+ artists with EXACTLY the same style. It was impossible to tell which artist was even the source of the style. Everyone was just continually copying. It was so bad that it was impossible to tell one artist's work from another and sort of made me sad. "Style" is kind of like "brand". All of the art was very good and well put together but no one had any individuality, no way for me to apply a name to the work. Style should be something that if you hold up two pieces of work next to each other I should be able to apply the name of the artist to it. But here I couldn't. It was just a massive collection of the same.

I couldn't help but wonder how the work would look if everyone took inspiration but still continually made it their own. There would be 20 distinct awesome styles circulating instead of one mass of work that had no personal touch.

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SkyVixie [2016-03-20 13:36:52 +0000 UTC]

Oh my god you have no idea how happy I am to see this, because this is EXACTLY what I'm going through right now with someone. This is EVERYTHING I have wanted to say so perfectly. Thank you so much for writing this.

A lot of people don't see the whole "copying a style" as a big deal, but the thing is they haven't really had it happen to them, and if they have, they obviously aren't as close to their art as we are. And it's NOT nice to have your style pretty much ripped off right in front of you and people praise it up when they should be praising you for the years you spent trying to develop that style.
I've felt massively insulted with this situation and it's a shame people don't see it as a big deal and don't see how hurt it can actually make an artist feel.

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elydoric [2016-03-20 13:11:17 +0000 UTC]

im just here to tell you that your username is swaggy, so , your username is swaggy

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Tinyguardian [2016-03-20 05:08:41 +0000 UTC]

I have unfortunately not found my own style yet, but I watched a video by Kienan Lafferty and in it he offers a simple piece of advice: "Look, don't stare." When it comes to styles, it can be deceptively easy to become captivated by one artist's style and think that their way of doing things is the best, or the end goal. 

Then later on another artist will come along and completely overshadow the first in your heart. But one artists style is no better or worse than another (unless they're drawing wrong). But because art is subjective and falls very much victim to whatever is popular or needed for their medium, one artist / style might be more in the limelight than another equally valid style. For instance, when I was growing up, I was madly in love with Kosuke Fujishima's drawing style for the characters in the Tales of series. But later on I discovered Yoji Shinkawa, and tried drawing like that. Soon afterwards I played The Last Story, and now I aspire to inject a bit of what I loved from Kimihiko Fujisaka's style.

In short, there's nothing wrong with being in awe of another artist's style, but forgetting that each style is valid and spending too much time with any given one can lead to a stylistic tunnel vision that as you say, ikr, will impair growth. It's better to look and enjoy a flower than stare and miss the garden.

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splendidcyan [2016-03-20 04:09:40 +0000 UTC]

I really love this. Style is something I struggle with- no matter how I change mine, someone else's always seems better. And often, styles become a sort of watermark of their own. It's like handwriting- while you may curve your W's while I write jagged, very straight W's, both are recognizable as a W. And it is very personal! Having it copied directly must feel rather taxing-- it's something that only develops over time or when you consciously change something about how you draw. While referencing what you like and dislike about someone else's art style is fine, all-out coping their art is not.
This is a really nice piece, thank you for sharing your thoughts!

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Dieliala [2016-03-20 03:57:32 +0000 UTC]

A lot of times, people who are copying styles are in the process of finding their own. It's like seeing a celebrity do something, and imitating the same thing, whether it be mannerisms, hairstyle, clothing, etc. 

Though there is a difference between trying to imitate what someone else is doing and copying with the intent of being them. The thing with the example you listed is that person A is pretty much changing themselves to be a replica of person B, which can get pretty creepy. Person A almost no longer has their own thoughts and opinions, they just basically mirror themselves off of B. That isn't the case with art.

Even when someone is copying someone else's artist style, they still have their own personal bits and pieces thrown into it. Whether it be the content, techniques used or general feel of the artwork. 

A lot of times when artists get called "Style thieves" it is because of one or two similarities despite the style being pretty simple and generic to replicate. I've saw an artist a few years back get called a "Style thief" because another artist called them out on using the same coloring techniques.

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Momilkie [2016-03-20 03:52:46 +0000 UTC]

This.
<3

Preach.

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Tmis [2016-03-20 03:23:33 +0000 UTC]

"Good artists copy, great artists steal." I heard this quote in art history and I have thought about it a lot since I did hear it. 
I think it refers to taking someone else's idea but evolving it into your own form of artwork. I think it refers to stealing technique.

I just thought of this after I read this journal and i'm wondering if some copycats are just trying to develop their own personal styles
by first trying out other styles from artists they like. Which I understand... but then again, there is a time when you need to take the training wheels
off of the bike enable to actually get good at riding one...

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Lahtistar [2016-03-20 03:02:10 +0000 UTC]

The whole imitation of person A/ person B scenario is really vague, well to me anyway. It literally sounds like impersonating, which is illegal when money is involved. Posing as someone else to deceive others and gain some advantage, in this case money I assume. So it doesn't particularly involve with copyright law per se. 

It becomes an extremely grey area for the art world definitely, as in animations and comics involving various arts, it's required to have consistence style within the team. However, that's where it really stops, since it's something that those artist AGREED on. 

Another thing I've notice over my time in the art world is how some people mimic popular anime/manga artists and offer commissions in that said popular style (e.g. the Naruto style). I personally never understood it or have I ever partake in them. In addition, it's more than obvious that these artists who mimic the popular art style are not the original creators. I believe the level popularity is a factor in this, since the general public would understand that Kishimoto Masashi, the creator of Naruto, wouldn't waste their time taking commissions online. So back to impersonation definition, people aren't really being deceived here.

So for the freelancers it becomes even more difficult, as the general public aren't fully aware of each and every single artist individually. Or should I dare say care; in the sense that a lot of us will take like 5mins on an artist profile only to move on to other things and forget about them. It's more easier for people imitate a style especially if they aren't that well know, and to even pass it off as heavily inspired/referencing. 

1. I truly believe if someone is heavily inspired or is referencing another artist, you MUST credit them. I understand if people don't do this for the bigger artists/company such as Naruto or Disney, since people wouldn't be deceived in to believing that a said artist is the creator of Naruto/Disney ect. (it's common knowledge factor) However for the the average deviant here, then it's REQUIRED it doesn't matter how popular a deviant is here, and view count doesn't count for that, because it just doesn't reflect a real life impact to the world to even count as common knowledge.

2. If an artist is mimicking your style, heavily referencing you, hasn't even properly credited you, and you confront them about it and things to do not change, I believe that's a big problem as they do not respect you. To go even further, if the style looks so similar that the public can't differentiate between the two artists, that just adds on to the mess and is a form of impersonating. I think it's important to publicly announce that you don't accept the behavior of the copier, that way the people will know who is the original, because that's extremely important!!! 

It's easy for people like Naruto or Disney to say that they are the original just because of how big they are, and the impact they put on to the world, however it not that easy for the average artist to make that same claim!

A sad truth but something to include, to the freelancers, most of us aren't that popular and the money we earn from commission might not even be enough to have lawyers involved, since I assume the money goes straight to cover bills. So it becomes more difficult or even pointless to fight. I also like to note that during my time in college, my professor has even told the class if the lawsuit claim does not exceed $2000 (can vary in each US state and country), it's consider a lose because you will be paying out of your own pocket. The only thing you can do is to make the public know you are the original, if you don't want to deal with the law or lose money.

Sorry I kinda flaked half way but that's what I had to say about it...

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SteveMillersArt [2016-03-20 02:43:11 +0000 UTC]

I wrote a journal about this subject as well some time ago.  Been seeing lot of this lately myself.

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JelArts [2016-03-20 02:41:23 +0000 UTC]

The expression about imitation was very helpful, I had no idea it was shortened from something else! I have always disagreed with the shortened version.

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CFF13 [2016-03-20 02:33:45 +0000 UTC]

I dont see what the big deal is with copying a style , an artist should be defining themselves by their art not so much their style, case in point anyone can copy Rembrant's style but not everyone can copy his works, frankly artist should be more worried about their works than their style . No darts thrown at the ikr. 

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NamineLee [2016-03-20 01:59:18 +0000 UTC]

Thank you so much for putting it out! I feel that a lot more people have been doing it lately.
It makes me quite sad because I don't want the future to have only one art style because everyone likes that art style ; v ;
Can I gain permission to use this journal whenever someone tries to imitate other's art style or to artists who are confused/learning? 

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MonochromeGoggles [2016-03-20 01:34:26 +0000 UTC]

I've seen this as a poor argument from many a young user here on DA to trace and edit works of another person as 'bases', without the permission of the original artist. All you need to do is just search under 'base' to find TONS of unauthorized traces of both franchised works, and even traces of individual DA users. Even when they use the argument that it is for 'practice', it still does not justify their usage of those 'practice' images in their gallery, especially when the edits made are done with the intent to post the modified image as their own piece for display. DA even expressly forbids this, however due to the nature of their policy on copyright, they cannot take down images that are even proven to be traced or edited unless the original creator of the piece reports it for takedown. 

I have argued with a few of these users with the acknowledgement that I was once in their shoes some time ago, long before I made my first account here. I used to edit game sprites like a total loser and would trace images of characters to change their pose or expression. However, this was back when I was about age 10 to 13. Afterwards, I realized that tracing and editing the works of others was for chumps or hacks who didn't know how to actually use tracing in a way that served a purpose for learning about dimensions and other elements of design. I grew to loathe misuse of 'fair use' and techniques that were meant to educate, but had been twisted into excuses by the misinformed or the lazy users of DA. 

Copying for the sake of learning has its purposes, and sometimes one can be unintentionally taken too far by someone who wants to borrow a certain trick or look to incorporate into the development of their own style overtime. However, you are quite right, there is a big distinction between inspiration and imitation, and it makes me really disgruntled when I see people posting nothing but copies or edits under the guise of practice. Unless an individual is making use of stock and is respecting the wishes of the stock provider, there is little excuse to fill one's galleries with knockoffs and edits.

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mininchin [2016-03-20 01:06:32 +0000 UTC]

Ahh, I agree with you :'3
I have copied some artists styles before, but since I got my own style, I can't draw in  other people's style anymore :'D
I got used to my style and it's more fun to draw with our style than copy other people :'3

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PalePastels [2016-03-20 00:35:11 +0000 UTC]

also its hard to accidentally steal someones style, most of the time you'll just take a few things you really like and morph it into your already existing style, and sometimes the thing you took in the first place will change to better fit your own style. So when people replicate your style exactly it wasnt on accident, they consciously did everything in their power to make it exactly like yours and thats not ok, thats not growing

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Henxer [2016-03-20 00:24:01 +0000 UTC]

Aren't those doppelgangers?

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jun-hae [2016-03-20 00:17:07 +0000 UTC]

www I love this, I have yet to find a style I'm comfortable with simply because I personally
find the influences too obvious (though it may not be the case to others) and I hate it

I could never put that feeling into words but I think you just hit it on the mark, thank you   /o/

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onyxsucksatdrawing [2016-03-19 23:53:35 +0000 UTC]

It happens a lot, sometimes I even mistake someone as someone else until I see the name 


and omg I actually had this girl cooy my every move it was so annoying. Idk if I told u about it before but this girl started talking/typing the way I do, cutting her hair when I cut my hair and changing her glasses to be like mine when hers were so diff before ever since she started dating my ex. It was creepy 

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Kururu-Pon [2016-03-19 23:22:57 +0000 UTC]

SORRY TLDR warning T_T

This is spot on with my own thoughts and pretty much is everything I said recently in a forum asking this same question as well (you can see it here: forum.deviantart.com/art/gener… ) my comment from the forum is below:
++++++

while people learn from various artists they admire and may want to emulate their style... this is a tricky subject hahaha...

some say you 'can't steal a style'...but I beg to differ... Some artists are so good at copying other styles that they can imitate that artist. And sometimes those people will actually do that? Sometimes people copy art styles out of spite to piss off the artist, and the list goes on.

Personally...taking inspiration and bits and pieces from many artists I think is fine...however...copying only 1 artist's style and trying to be 'just like them'....I find annoying...for a few reasons. (it can also be considered plagiarism...but not many things protect 'idea and style' plagiarism...) so I think this becomes a situation of ethics/morals?

Copying is not the sincerest form of flattery... That artist probably worked very hard on trying to 'find their style'. Finding your style is actually one of the trickiest things for an artist. Years of searching and refining can go into seeing what an artist likes the most. And for some random to just come along and be like "ooo i like that 8D -takes completely-"...that's kinda shitting on that artist's hard work I feel? Especially if the artist does something that's considered unique? So for someone too lazy to bother doing their own hard work and being unique, it's sorta iffy?  I think that's also why artists will get defensive about "style stealing". 

The lines get even fuzzier though when something's very common or generic. So I think this applies more to very distinctive styles and traits of art.

+++++


I think 'certain people' are the ones who USUALLY steal things or copy styles. Just an observation and my opinion of course, but it seems to be mostly people who are selfish, egotistical, insecure, and self entitled. They are usually compulsive liars, even when it's super obvious - they fail to admit their wrong-doings. From my personal experience, I had to deal with a rather nasty piece of work who justified her copying, stealing, and tracing by the defense of "I SAW X ARTIST DO THIS ALREADY ANYWAY)." What's worse was she was supposed to be my friend, and she was actually copying my art. Since she thought it looked similar to someone elses', apparently in her mind, that gave her the right to simultaneously insult and steal from me at the same time. Not a very good friend yeah? Not a very good person even.


So I suppose because of this experience, I look upon people who do these sorts of things harshly, and with very little patience :'D;;;;


I'll end with this little bit of insight (toward people who do in fact steal/imitate styles):

if you're aspiring to work for a company as an artist of some sort. How do you think they would react if your art was clearly imitating someone else's work? Legal or not, do you think they'd hire someone like that? Some artists have even been fired simply for using reference (the proper way!). So I guess people can use excuses all they want, they aren't going to be very successful and I take huge comfort in that.

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