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XDiaLinnX — It doesn't work like that.
Published: 2014-04-21 16:39:08 +0000 UTC; Views: 3489; Favourites: 186; Downloads: 7
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"Science killed God." I hear this statement so many times, it's become very funny. People need to realize that science does not work like that. Science itself cannot disprove the existence of a diety that is defined as a supernatural and abstract being.
You would be shifting from science to metaphysics if you were to assert that only what science can investigate directly is real. Making a philosophical statement, such as "If you can't see it, feel it, or hear it, it doesn't exist", is not scientific, since you can't or refuse to test out the very statement. This can lead the person into making circular reasoning fallacies. Saying that science can only expore the physical natures does not show that anything abstract is non-existant. The statement only threatens to contradict itself, since words themselves are abstract, and are very real.
Could it support the non-existence? Maybe it can. However, the scientific method is to observe what is happening in the present, form a hypothesis and to see if something can be recreated or retested. There are many theories and many hypothesis, but even the most concrete theories can change dramatically as new technology progresses new tests and even more discoveries.
There are many scientists who have opinions based on their presupposed beliefs and they go about interpreting evidence to support their beliefs, so that means if you already are convinced that God does not exist and cannot exist, you probably wouldn't be that open to the evidence that supports otherwise.
Just my opinion. *tail swish*
BLAH, I feel like I didn't do a good job explaining myself in the description, just sooo tired and still trying to get back into the controversial crowd lol
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Comments: 107
As a Christian I actually agree with you which is why God gave people the task of recording His word and giving it to the people, because science alone has lead to multiple religions.
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We didn't say it does. Science is the research of God's universe, not God Himself
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A magical man named "hippie_teapainis_adventures_tennis_Soo000ooS.ugly" created the universe.
He's invisible.
You can't disprove it.
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Considering this is a derogatory comment towards creationists, I think that fact alone disproves it
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People try to disprove God with science, and yet they're forgetting that we can't test God (Pretty sure Jesus pointed that out to Satan) and science pretty much runs on testing. How 'bout them apples?
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Why could we not test God? What would he have to be afraid of tests? If he is as infallible as claimed, he would not have anything to fear because he knows that he would be proven right. If God really does have a sense of humor, he would humor the people who test him and just laugh as they fail.
The same could be said his jealous obsession with people not worshiping him. If he were the only god, why would he be jealous of other gods if he knows that they do not exist?
(I apologize, but your apples have long since spoiled.)
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If we test God, we show our lack of faith in Him. God is trustworthy, and will never make a promise He will not keep. Also, God would not laugh at the expense of his creation--he loves them too much.
On your second point, the term "jealous" used in the Bible when referring to God is not used in the way we might, that is envy, a sin. God's jealousy is the love of a husband to an unfaithful wife. Unbelievers hurt God due to their unfaithfulness, but God still loves them anyway.
I apologize, but my apples haven't spoiled quite yet.
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His jealousy is the same, no matter how you look at it. You are not paying attention to him and that makes him angry.
Your comparison between his jealousy and unfaithful spouses is also not very accurate. You are using "faith" synonymously with "trust" where it should not be used.
Religion is not based on trust. The word "faith" means to believe without evidence. This would be the proper use when talking about religion.
If the husband knew of his wife's disloyalty, he certainly would not love her to the same extent has he once did. If he claims otherwise, he is being dishonest with himself. Betrayal of trust is like crushing paper, you can try to repair the damage, but it will never again be the same.
With God, that would not even be possible. He would already know your reasons and thought processes leading up to and after one decided to be "unfaithful." Thusly, he would know exactly what to do to make them "faithful" once more.
It seems to me that God wants people that are more gullible than anything else.
If he loves them so dearly and was as benevolent as people claim, he would not damn those who do not believe in him to an eternity of suffering simply because they require more than faith to believe he exists. Especially when he is not very forthcoming with viable evidence of his existence. If he is all-knowing, he would know that some people would need more than just faith alone.
On top of that, he seems rather lazy with whom he lets into heaven. You can be the absolute worst person on the planet and you still would be allowed into heaven so long as you believe, whereas all kind-hearted non-believers are condemned simply because they do not believe.
I would say that your God is a very poor judge of character. I truly righteous and all-knowing judge would pass said judgment based on our actions rather than our beliefs. Does the phrase "Actions speak louder than words" mean nothing to your God?
If your apples are not spoiled, they have fooled a great many people, including you.
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>"If the husband knew of his wife's disloyalty, he certainly would not love her to the same extent has he once did."
I would like to point out the prophet Hosea--he married a woman, she was unfaithful, but instead of getting angry, Hosea brought her back and redeemed her. This is what God offers when we disobey him. God is all-loving, and is incapable of anything else. He gives us the freedom of will to make our own choices, and will forgive our mess-ups if we simply ask.
On being the worst person and still being allowed into Heaven, I can honestly say that I cannot answer that. God will judge. As for kind-hearted nonbelievers going to hell, God's offer of hope and salvation extend up until the moment of death. Many people who have not believed before accept Him in the end. Also, we go to heaven by faith, not by works, though James points out that faith without works is nothing.
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Find any person in the real world that would say or have said they would wholesomely trust their untrustworthy spouse after they cheated on them. If they do, that is the very definition of being a self-diluted fool. There are some things that are not meant to be just forgiven and forgotten.
God gave us free will? Then why does he insist that we obey his every command? Why must we ask for his forgiveness for our mistakes instead of atoning for them and learning FROM them? That is not free will.
If he truly cared about his children, eternal damnation would never have even crossed his mind. Benevolence is not the first word that I would think of when I think of your God.
But enough if this. I have one question for you. Would you change your mind about God and the bible if given reason to or with evidence? Or will your mind remain fixed? Do you care about truth?
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God is not a human, and does not doubt. He knows we'll screw up again, but he continues to love us anyway.
As for obeying God, we were created in His image. We do not HAVE to obey his commands, but it is still the best option.
On the topic of hell, God does not send anybody to hell--they send themselves there. God does everything he can to keep us out of hell and still maintain our free will. That's the way we were made--with the power to say no, reject our Creator, and suffer the consequences.
If there were hard evidence that the Bible was wrong and not the perfect Word of God, then yes I would not remain a Christian, as that negates everything God did for us through His Son. However the Bible is perfect, and cannot be proven wrong.
I would like to propose a question to you--if there is no life after death, then what's the point?
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That is where I think that you are very wrong. The bible was not written by god. Think about it, he can create plagues and anything else humans cannot, but he cannot create a single thing that humans CAN make. He cannot build cars, buildings, statues, and he can never write anything himself. Why else would he need a mortal man to create his own commandments?
Read Jeremiah 8:8, it says: "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie.
The point of life? What is the point of God? All he seems to have ever existed for was to give man an excuse for anything he knows nothing about. If you want your life to have meaning billions of years from now, it will not happen. If you want your life to be meaningful in the present, then try making the lives of others meaningful.
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God did not create cars or statues or buildings, no, but He did create the people and the stone and metal that created the cars and statues and buildings. The Bible is the Word of God, and it was given to men to write down and spread throughout the world and show God's love.
What is the point of God? There is no point, because He IS the point.
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Then show me how he created them, give evidence or else your argument is without a base. If you can give no reason for people to believe you, we would have one good reason not to believe you. There is no evidence to suggest that God created rock and metal, and plenty of evidence to show otherwise.
If God is the point, but there is no point as you claim, then God is invalid. For your God to exist, somehow, all of reality cannot exist and evidence would have to mean absolutely nothing.
Also, you contradicted yourself earlier. You said that you would change your mind about Christianity through evidence, but have ALREADY decided that you believe that the bible is infallible. If you truly believe that, you would not say that you would change your mind. Your beliefs are either fixed or not.
However, if you are true to your word, then visit YouTube and search for a man named AronRa. He will give you the evidence that you seek. If you truly seek it.
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On the third day God made land, and therefore the ingredients to make metal.
Also, God does not conform to our science. He created the scientific laws, therefore they do not have to apply to Him. He exists outside of time, and outside the physical realm that we know.
On the topic of contradicting myself, I apologize for that, as I may have worded that poorly. The Bible is perfect, it says so itself. It stands or falls as a whole, and any errors would discredit the entire thing. So yes, I would say that my beliefs are fixed, but I am open to different points of view (such as this debate, which I've actually found quite interesting, and I must thank you for that)
I did check out that YouTuber you suggested, and while I didn't watch any of his videos, I did skim his discussion page. He looks to be full of nonsense--saying that science and religion are not compatible, and that if you're not a feminist you're a sexist (which is the equivalent of saying that if you're not a Christian you're a devil-worshiper, which even I don't believe) and he generally looks like he's full of crap. I find it hard to believe that he has anything to say, other than taking the Bible out of context and trying to twist words.
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If God exists outside of our reality, that means he does not exist IN our reality. That, and just saying "God did it," does not explain it. That is literally an excuse for not knowing how something happens.
Even if God created the laws of science, he clearly does not abide by the scientific method. Science wants demonstrable evidence. Not faith. God should have known this and should have been prepared to work around it.
On the point of your views on our debate, I will also admit to being surprised that this has not just dissolved into petty insults and immature behavior. So for that, I will also thank you for keeping this a mature conversation thus far.
Also, I would suggest you actually watch Aron's videos. Just scanning over his discussion page does very little in the way of understanding. He explains his places to a very fine point so that everybody can understand, even if you disagree with him. I can even suggest the ones that would related to this topic. This is just a small handful of his work. If you are open to other views, then seek to understand Aron's before you disregard him as nonsense. If you do watch his videos, DO NOT skip through them, watch them from start to finish.
You may disagree with Aron, that is fine. But the man is NOT full of nonsense. Seek first to understand, then to be understood.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhDGOv… - Show Me the Truth of it
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd_0hj… Reconsidering Norms (Where he explains his stance on Feminism)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvAM4s… - Morality and Meaning for Godless Humanists
www.youtube.com/watch?v=36g3au… - The Ten Commandments
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLviKi… - The Evolution of Genesis
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhdLg7… - What We Can and Cannot Say We Know
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkPbsD… - Religious Culture
www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvg3mR… - Theism is Not Rational
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You are trying to apply man's physics to God, which is impossible. He is omnipresent. God does not abide by the scientific method, no, but I reiterate that He does not have to for He created it. And God's existence is demonstrated in the many documented medical miracles that have happened in the past, among other things. It is difficult for me to comprehend how someone could look at the complexity and beauty of the universe, and not believe that it was created by someone, but I digress.
And I did watch one of AronRa's videos (the one entitled "STFU", if you're curious) and I cannot believe how much of a strawman his argument is. He is acting as though all Christians are Bible-thumping, gay-hating, don't-shave-your-beard-or-eat-seafood fundie fanatics. His argument would be appropriate against the Westboro Baptist Church, not against Christians as a whole. I know some obnoxious Christians, but I know a whole lot more who are kind, decent people.
(Also, this is a little off-topic, but It's been bugging me for ages--how do non-religious folks explain the calendar? As in, 2016 years since what? I apologize if this seems irritating, but I'm just curious.)
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Aron has distaste for pretty much all religion, not just Christianity. He sees them all as inherently dishonest, either willfully or unknowingly. Watch more than one of his videos that are longer than about 20 minutes.
That video was directed at extremists, just so you know, and it was not a strawman argument by any means. He knows that casual people do not predict the end of the world. He has videos that are directed at them, but instead actually educational. Watch the ones that I linked to you.
For your question about the calendar, just Google it, but I assure you it was not because people only started keeping track of the dates before then.
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I will try that when I have some more time. On the extremists bit, he could have stated that beforehand, as there appeared to be quite a lot of people in the comments section just eating it up, judging by the general "All Christians are bigoted assholes" response.
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I hope you do watch more of his work. Even if we disagree with him, we can learn much from him.
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I'll have to give it a go sometime. At any rate, it was nice debating with you--I'm glad it remained civil, and I learned a lot. Have a good one!
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I am also pleased to see our debate end in a civil manner. Though, I will apologize if I ever came across as passive-aggressive during our conversation, as it was never my intention.
Regardless... Now we part from our digital company. May you always find peace on the roads you walk.
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It's annoying how so many people think it can only be God or science. I just wanna say to them: "What if i told you, God created the laws of science and governs the universe by them?" Maybe I should make a meme like that...
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Then you would look rather stupid, haha! Science created the laws of science through the scientific method. Everyone learns how that works in elementary school.
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God said "Let there be light", them BOOM! The Big Bang happened. Can't go wrong there!
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So, this means I can walk around space until I discover there's no gravity and I suddenly start floating around?
These laws existed before man knew it, earth has always been round, even when men thought it was flat
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No of course not. Since you could not understand, I'll explain that I was refering to how our understanding of these physics came to be. The way the universe works has already been that way; humanity later wrote "laws" to explain how it works. They did not create or cause the way it works; the "laws" are simply conclusions as to how it works based on our observations.
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You're a meme person- How are you confused at me using a meme?
Now I'm confused!
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then my work here is done
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THANK YOU!
I'm kind of curious about what happens in the bible and such and even believe a lot of alternative so I'm probably agnostic (or not?). As a science fan, this makes sense.
Yet, the Bible can describe events that CAN be proven by science and I could of swear that some stuff was proven.
Science is about facts, and just because they have theories about the Universe or even if they are 100% proven fact, that doesn't disprove God automatically..
It's actually very impossible to disprove an existing God. You have to be everywhere and even that may not be enough because you may start asking more questions at the end anyway.
"Who made all this?"
"Why does it work this way?"
"What made the laws that created the universe and beyond?"
So yeah. xD
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As one SETI scientist is so fond of saying "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".
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Great! I'm going to use this stamp 
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What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. In other words, your (lack of) logic is fail. 
In short, stop trying so damn hard to prove your precious god to everyone. We simply don't fucking care, lol. Prove it to yourself if it's that damn important to you.
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In the science class I'm currently taking, it states how things such a god and other greater things are known as metaphysical claims. Which means they can't officially yet be scientifically proven true or false. And since its metaphysical it can't be rejected as a possibility. It up for us either to believe in it or not.
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As one SETI scientist is so fond of saying "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".
Science is at a loss to even know what 95% of the universe is made up of. It's embarrassing as an amateur astronomer having to resort to labels such as Dark Matter and Dark Energy. I'd might as well be saying that the universe is mostly made up of an inflating invisible pony and fairy dust matter.
- atheist Skeptic either way.
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I'm pretty sure she's not trying to prove to anyone the existence of God. She's saying science cannot disprove a deity's existence. As you yourself said, science doesn't prove or disprove anything. It can help us to understand the world around us with (usually) good working theories.
You may not like it when people "try to prove the existence of their god to you"(which is clearly not the case here) but nor do people who believe in God like it when people use terms such as "god-crazy" to refer to them. In fact, I hate such stereotypes too.
Religious Extremist =/= Everyone who has a faith.
Oh yes, and there are people who do try to use science to disprove the existence of a God(and/or other deities), so this stamp is rather appropriate.
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Meh, more like the proof of how awesome God is.
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Thank you! As a believer in God AND a lover of science, this stamp really speaks to me!
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Science is a process by which you DEMONSTRATE something; it never claims to prove anything. A person can use the scientific method to demonstrate what is likely or unlikely, but it can't do anything by itself. The PERSON would be demonstrating an idea using evidence and the scientific method.
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