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Zigwolf — Ben 10 To the Power of Two
Published: 2012-07-29 20:33:23 +0000 UTC; Views: 12501; Favourites: 145; Downloads: 23
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Here's mine and 's versions of Ben if the Ultimate Alien Force series' were rebooted. This has got me thinking of doing a Multiverse series of Ben 10 pics.Related content
Comments: 99
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Huh, not sure. I'll have to think about that.
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I mean what if Skurd never left?
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Huh, I'll have think about that one.
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Ey Zig, ever think of rebooting the Ultimatrix as well?
I think if you did, you could take some inspiration from these designs: vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/b… (for the base model, idk why, but it has most features of the OS Omnitrix), and ttcptsfan.deviantart.com/art/B… (for the colors, other than the hourglass actually being Classic Hourglass colored on the Ultimatrix [when inactive, in normal Alien mode, or selecting an alien that cannot go Ultimate], or rarely, Green Hourglass colored on the Ultimatrix [but only when selecting an alien that can go Ultimate, or in Ultimate Mode], pitch-black designs being turned into the old paint tech designs, and the stretching "pegs" being turned into wires on the Ultimatrix itself, but thicker wires)
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Not really, only because Albedo might not exist in my reboot. For Ben's evil duplicate, I'm having Ben X zigwolf.deviantart.com/art/Omn… from the hero/villain reversed Universe X. Plus there's also his future self Ben Xfinity zigwolf.deviantart.com/art/Omn…
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Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on Ben's character(both his zigzaging "character-development" and his character overall)?
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OS: His character was pretty much spot on for a ten year old given an alien watch that could transform him into many aliens. He would be more tempted to do selfish things with it than a teen because he's not so mature at that age and his relationship with Gwen and Max is spot on as well (How Ben acted towards Gwen reminds me of how I used to act towards my twin sister when I was 10).
UAF: He got mature fast and I thought he acted more mature for someone his age. Me and pretty much everyone I knew acted a little more immature than how old they were. But he was a good leader and worked better with others than how he did when he was younger. The one thing that irked me about his character was his obsession with Mr. Smoothy and how the only things we would see him eat were a smoothies and chili fries.
OV : He mellowed out a bit in the first season which was a plus for me and how he showed real fear with Malware which makes him more relatable and not a hero who's unafraid of anything. Plus I liked that the series was exploring his dating life more and with multiple girls instead just him with Julie in UAF which we didn't see much of. Towards the end of the series, he started to take a downward spiral on his character. He was acting arrogant like saying he saved the universe a billion times and how he was acting stupid with not wanting to learn anything important or even reading, like how in one episode he stopped reading an email form Kai after he reads the word museum.
Basically he started out great, got better in some ways and bad in others, then mellowed out but got some problems from that as well.
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OS: Agreed.
UAF: He starts out in Alien Force as über-mature, then became painfully arrogant in the "third" season. Then, in Ultimate Alien, he became a mix between the two. Nothing really "wrong" with this, since he was a competent and likeable hero regardless, I'm just saying that the development was very up-and-down/back-and-forth(also, I agree, the smoothie thing was weird).
OV: Even as you say that, this Ben's character was all over the place. While the other versions were almost jarringly different from each other, they were at least consistent within themselves. OV!Ben, on the other hand, basically shifts between episodes from a bumbling and inept moron who gets his ass handed to him in the most facepalmingly obvious ways, to an intelligent and serious hero who can outsmart his opponent(s), and back again as the plot demands it. His personality is also a victim of this; shifting him between his normal heroic self and a narcissistic douchebag(bordering on "uncaring sociopath") who's clearly only in the superhero biz to stroke his own multiverse-sized ego.
Speaking of Kai, what are your thoughts on her?
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UAF: Yeah he went from one unlikable trait to another and that's why I didn't like AF Ben and then like you said he got a bit better. Yeah he was bouncing around alot when it came to his attitude. The smoothie thing was especially weird when the writers used it as a metaphor for fan reactions to the AF aliens like how the "alien x" smoothie was hyped up alot but ended up being very bland and dissapointing.
OV This Ben was a nightmare and all over the map which made him really unlikable on alot of occasions. I hope if there's a sequel series that Ben's attitude is more anchored.
I really like Kai, she consistantly got better as Ov went along. She had a good theme to her with being a globetrotting archeologist with her Grandpa and eventually using artifacts like Excalibur as weapons for herself. One thing I also like about her is she doesnt stand for all of Ben's nonsense and keeps him in check to a certain degree.
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I wouldn't go as far as "unlikable," but I will agree that his character shifting between series(and sometimes between seasons) was the main problem with him. Personally, I wouldn't have really minded if they at least developed him from less mature to more mature, instead of what they ended-up doing.
Btw, I think they only did that once with the smoothies.
And hopefully, said sequel will be a reboot, so that this mistake of a character can be wiped from continuity. Seriously, though, read some of the comments for Kapaychan's "The Beginning of the End is the Beginning;" there's some really, really thought-provoking stuff: kapaychan.deviantart.com/art/T…
Even as you say that, she was still an absolute bitch(though, still not worse than OV!Ben) who's werewolf-fetish got turned up to fifty(because eleven is far too small a number). The funny thing is that the relationship between her and Ben is basically a carbon copy of the one between Ben and Gwen in the original series.
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Unlikable was probably the wrong word to pick for that you really nailed down what was wrong and what should of happened.
Yeah I know it was but isn't that weird that on this occasion and with a sumo slammers game that the show acknowledged that it wasnt better than the OS and said what some of the UAF's problems were.
I dont want a total reboot, but instead a new incarnation of Ben 10. You know, same basic ideas and concepts kept but the story will change up a bit, like each new series for shows like Scooby Doo or Transformers.
Wow I never saw the parallels of the BenKai to Bwen before you brought it up. I don't think she's a total bitch, I mean because of how Ben is, the writers chose to make her that was to counteract him and that's made her seem bitchy to some but I think that if in a new series Ben got a more mature personality, Kai might be made to lighten up. And the wolf thing, I dont know for some reason it doesnt bother me all that much
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Thank you. The sad thing is that these are completely basic and obvious ways of fixing what's wrong, yet the "professional" writers couldn't/didn't even think of and/or do them.
Indeed... they acknowledged the problems, but didn't fix them...
That's kinda what I was going for. Hell, alternate timelines and universes have been established as canon long since "Ben 10,000 Returns," so they could give us our new version without having to retcon-away their precious clusterfuck from existence: the new version we're seeing could just be a different timeline.
It's pretty obvious that they, at the very least, took inspiration from that... only with Kai instead of Gwen... and actually doing it on purpose. I know that she wasn't a total bitch, which is why I said that she wasn't worse than OV!Ben, I'm just saying that she's not exactly the woman I imagine a fully matured Ben 10,000 being married to. Also, while I do admit that; with Omniverse's Earth having aliens living among humans from it being an "open system," so these human/alien relationships could be more common and/or accepted(hell, just look at Sheelane and Mr. Baumann); Kai wants to make Blitzwolfer her pet, not her boyfriend/lover(are the writers suggesting that Kai's into bestiality? Because, if so, What! The! Fuck!)!
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Yeah you're right though trying to fix them might have made it worse if they didn't do it the right way. Like magic, first they say there's no such thing, that it's all mana manipulation then later magic suddenly appears possible and they don't even correct themselves on what they said earlier on.
Yeah, like it UAF could of shown the audience from the beginning that there's countless different timelines with different Bens and show us the OS Ben but then left that one to introduce the UAF Ben. That could also explain the different art styles. Different dimensions, different looks.
Well I think people change over the years and 25 years is enough for Ben and Kai to mature more and get rid of their negative aspect which will eventually lead them to getting married. Besides I kinda like that some couples aren't perfect for each other until a certain amount of time and not right off the bat, cause if they are then where does that leave them to get better as a couple ? You're not the only one that's caught that interspecies vibe between Kai and Blitzwolfer. In fact that came up when me and another friend where having a Ben 10 discussion. The whole pet vibe flew when she was 10 because of her age but now that she's matured, the ideas between them have also.
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They should've played Kevin and Gwen's dad saying "there's no such thing as magic" as just them not seeing/experiencing it, then have Verdona pretty much confirm that magic does actually exist("mana manipulation" could just be what makes magic actually work). Hell, they could've/should've played a lot of the early retcons as just assumptions.
Agreed... too bad they didn't think of making alternate timelines/universes canon until much later. Then again, maybe they did, but didn't go through with it since they'd basically have to start the continuity over from scratch.
Plus, when she was ten, she might not have been that good at/experienced in social interaction, since her "train you, tame you, you know?" suggests that she's unaware that Ben(or anyone) might not understand her thought-process/mindset. Now that she's a teenager, though, I doubt there's a similar excuse(also, where might I find this discussion?)...
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Actually, that could work.
Maybe they could go with the Omniverse method of showing us flashbacks to explain to us what's different than what we know.
Yeah, you're probably right about that. I mean Kai living in the desert on an Native American reservation then she might not have had others her age to interact with for a normal social life. That excuse could still fly a bit now that she's a teenager because she's always traveling the world with her Grandpa. She probably wouldn't have any long lasting friends if she's traveling the globe. (Not sure where to find the discussion at, it was a long time ago when it was made.)
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"Yeah, it could've... too bad the writers didn't think of it, themselves," said reality, while it facepalms(as do I).
That, or they could take a minute(or two) of the first episode for each new series to explain that this is an alternate timeline/universe(y'know, the whole "I am Uatu, The Watcher" intro); hell, they could've even done both.
Y'know, that might actually be the case... a shame, then, that Omniverse successfully failed to actually EXPLORE that idea(or even acknowledge it)!
Going back to Ben, though, what are your thoughts on the people that they picked to play him(both voice-actors and live-action actors)?
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Oh that could work! We have Paradox explain a little about what dimension we're visiting and how the characters act there.
Yeah, it took them til season six out of eight to get to the dimension hopping parts of the series. WTH.
Tara Strong was the best Ben and Yuri Lowenthal was good but it was kinda weird that Ben had a deeper voice as a kid then as a teen he has a high pitched voice. And I mean high, his screams like a girls sometimes. It just such a shame that he sounds this way in the show when I've heard him sound a lot better in other shows, anime, and games. I don't particularly remember the live action Bens so I can't comment on how I thought about them.
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Paradox would've been absolutely perfect for that.
Agreed... though, I was actually referring to Kai's possible social awkwardness.
Maybe they could've/should've gotten Josh Keaton to voice teenage Ben instead of Yuri Lowenthal? That would've definitely solved the high-pitched problem.
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Yeah
Oh, my bad.
Yeah he would of been perfect, he played some of my favorite heroes like Spider-Man and Green Lantern.
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No problem; you were right, anyway(seriously, why call the it "Omniverse" if that's only 10% of the actual show!?!?!?!).
Agreed. Seriously, that guy needs more work. First "Spectacular Spider-Man" gets cancelled, then he gets replaced by Drake Bell as Spidey on "Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes," and then "Green Lantern" gets cancelled(alongside Young Justice) to make way for "Beware the Batman" and "Teen Titans Go!" I ask you, what grand deity did Keaton piss-off to get that much bullshit to happen to him and his career!?!?!
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Exactly, the title's pretty misleading.
He does, the guy's a really voice actor. Oh, that pissed me off so bad, Keaton already did the lines for the entire episode then Disney comes stomping in wanting Drake Bell to take over because they want to promote Ultimate Spider-Man or connect EMH with it which makes no sense since these Avengers are completely different than the one from Assemble (Hate that show too). GL and YJ was a tragedy, I mean the fans loved both series so much and just because the Green Lantern movie failed at the box office and toys for both weren't selling as well as WB hoped for they just outright cancel both. Nothing about the shows themselves made them deserve to get cancelled and it was outside factors that led to their end. I just hope Keaton's getting good work right now.
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You and me both, my friend.
What's even worse is that these great shows that are prematurely cancelled get replaced with shows that are vastly inferior to their predecessor(s): "Ultimate Spider-Man," "Avengers Assemble," and "Teen Titans Go!" are all prime examples of this.
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Yeah there was a time that we had awesome shows like Wolverine and the X-men, Spectacular Spider-Man, Avengers: EMH, Young Justice, and Green Lantern and all of them though no fault of their own get cancelled and each ended with cliffhangers. Now we're stuck with these crap shows that pander to little kids in the worst way possible and don't appeal to older fans in any way.
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It's not just that the new shows pander to kids and don't appeal to older fans that frustrates me, it's also that they're so terribly written to where it's plainly obvious that no one working on them actually cares... unless it's about advertising toys or promoting movies.
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Yeah and the sad thing is Man of Action writes Ult. Spider-Man and Avengers Ass. and they've fallen so far from where they've risen with Ben 10 and Gen Rex. You're right about the advertising, Marvel isn't even trying to hide that these shows are made to sell toys and promoting the movies like you said. A show made to sell toys should build a series first then try to make toys out of stuff from it and not throw toys at the writers and make them build stories around those.
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Agreed, they've fallen depressingly far from grace.
What makes it even worse is that good cartoons based around toys have been proven possible to make(Transformers and the current My Little Pony, anyone?), but that's only if the people creating it put effort into all aspects of the show, not just the product-placement(s).
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Exactly! Those were awesome example of doing toy based series the right way. Those shows had great ideas and built a mythos around those ideas and incorporated objects and characters that could be later made into toys.
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Agreed. I think a big part of that comes from the creative team building their own characters, stories, and lore around the toys and making all of it interesting to the audience. Ultimate Spider-Man's characters, stories, and lore(aside from being blatantly disrespectful towards its source-material) are just excuses to show-off things that are obviously meant to be sold as toys; while Avengers Assemble's are doing the same, but with the Marvel movies.
Going back to Ben, though, I think that another problem with his character is that he's only been as intelligent and effective as the writer(s) want him to be and/or as the plot demands(mostly because he, allegedly, could utterly crush all of the villains otherwise). How would you rectify this issue?
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I totally agree with everything you said
Well I'd gather the writers all together and get everyone to settle on Ben's level of intelligence so that it doesn't seem so different from episode to episode.
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Thank you.
It would've been nice for the writers to keep each other on the same page, so as to avoid the major inconsistencies of Ben's character throughout both Omniverse and the franchise as a whole.
However, speaking of the effectiveness issue I mentioned, there's another of Ben's inconsistencies: the omnitrix and its screw-ups. In the original series it was fairly reliable, but had a few hiccups here and there(understandable, considering it's a prototype in the hands of a ten-year-old); then, in Alien Force, it shapeshifts for no reason at all and starts Ben over with ten completely unfamiliar aliens(plus, the issues from the original series were completely gone until season "three," which I blame on their botched attempt at hacking it and that it's still the prototype); the ultimatrix had some bugs as well, but that can be passed-off as it being home-made and far from perfect; however, the OV!omnitrix has no such excuse(especially since it's supposed to be 100% "perfect"), yet it fails ninety-eight percent of the time... Where to even begin with this...
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You're welcome
Exactly.
Well it was explained in the show by Azmuth and by Derrick J Wyatt that the reason, which I partly agree with, is that the Omnitrix is working fine. Ben just slams the Omnitrix too hard when choosing an alien and that leads him to getting one he didn't pick. This reason seems like something that would be Ben's fault very easily.
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(oh dear God, that Goddamn fucking handwave of an excuse) Perhaps that explanation COULD'VE worked... IF THE MISTRANSFORMATIONS HADN'T CONTINUED HAPPENING AFTERWARDS!!! Seriously, are the writers of Omniverse implying that Ben is so utterly incompetent that he doesn't think that he should be a bit more gentle with the omnitrix when he's trying to use it? Plus, if the OV!omnitrix is supposed to be both "perfect" and programed to "only work for Ben," then shouldn't Azmuth have built it to withstand being handled rougher than just looking at it(and yes, I am aware that design flaws happen, but that's no excuse when both the device's creator and the guy in charge of the show keep insisting the there's "nothing wrong" with it)? Hell, if the OV!omnitrix was really designed only for Ben, then he should've designed it with Ben's "fat fingers" and "slamming too hard" in mind(isn't the omnitrix supposed to be virtually indestructible?).
Either Azmuth was wrong and there is something wrong with the OV!omnitrix(in which case Ben should've, at the very least, had him take a look at it to make sure), or he was lying to cover his own ass(both of which call both his credibility and ethics into question).
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Actually based on how he acted in the last few seasons of Omniverse, I'd say yeah, he is that utterly incompetent. You're reasoning isn't wrong, but I think that Azmuth thinks his inventions are perfect with no fault ever coming from them and I blame that on OV raising him up to being this genius leader who knows everything about the universe when he didn't even start out that way in Secret of the Omnitrix, if you look at them side by side they're very different characters and to me it isn't one of those matters of character growth to explain the huge difference.
That's true with what it should of been designed with. I think that the OV omnitrix is out of them all the most flawed when it comes to their design. Hell I didn't even like the AF recalibrated omnitrix design but I understood how it worked and what stuff was where. But the newest omnitrix just gives me a headache trying to understand its whole design. I just think it was made that way because someone said yeah that looks cool and didn't care how it worked.
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Oh, silly, naive me. Of course he is, this is OV!Ben we're talking about.
Yet another example of the UAF era's needless retcons leading to disaster.
To be completely fair, there are a minute few design choices that do actually make sense. The rotating hologram menu, for example, not only shows Ben the alien he's selecting, but also the aliens around it. This is actually a very cool and practical idea, since it allows Ben to know what aliens he's cycling-through and/or selecting ahead of time... unfortunately, what kills it is that the faces inside the holo-menu-thing make it nearly impossible to discern what alien Ben's actually getting(at least when compared to the more descriptive holograms of the UAF era). The retracting touchscreen is also a neat idea, but is similarly bogged-down by the whole "fat fingers" explanation.
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Exactly!
Yup, he could of still been the smartest alien in the universe (not to levels he's in the show) and still a recluse and he would be as good or maybe better than his current self. I wish the attitude he had in SotO would come back as well.
I like the hologram menu, it's quicker to have than the switching silhouettes for the original omnitrix. The faces also annoyed me as well. Maybe to fix it, their color could be added to their icons to show which one you're picking. I kinda don't like retracting faceplate only because of what pops up underneath. I mean the omnitrix is pretty thin so I'm wondering where the part that pops up comes from since it rises out a lot when it comes out.
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Agreed... In fact, it could've been a mutual learning experience for both him AND Ben; Azmuth could subtly mentor Ben on how to better utilize the omnitrix and its aliens, while Ben could help break Azmuth out of his pessimism and restore some of his faith in the universe.
That, or smaller holograms of the aliens could show on the menu(either way, there must've been some way of fixing the display!).
Hmmm... I never really thought of how much the faceplate pops up... maybe it's just stored in hammerspace?
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That is brilliant!!!
Or maybe show the entire alien but make them look 8bit or like the sprites from Pokémon.
Maybe, all I know is the next omnitrix needs to be larger because sometimes smaller isn't always better, plus the omnitrixes will start getting larger down the road to the Ben 10k future.
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Thank you. Thank you.
... 8bit sprites might not be much better than the faces, but the Pokémon idea might work.
Indeed... although, perhaps as a added feature, the omnitrix could be able to change itself to look smaller and more like a watch, so that people can't tell what it really is right away(it would've made the watch changing itself in Alien Force make more sense because the smaller "watch" mode isn't its natural form, it can just change itself to look like a watch as a disguise)?
Speaking of Ben 10,000, which one do you prefer? The version(s) from the original series, the version from Ultimate Alien, or the version from Omniverse?
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Cool, I thought one of those might work.
Once again that's a great idea! Have the omnitrix look like a "normal" watch (AF or OV omnitrixes) during its sleep mode and it can also tell time. Then Ben has to press a button or do a dial combination to change it into the larger active omnitrix.
The OS Ben 10,000 was my favorite. He seemed the most mature out of them all and had in my opinion the best design (him and his omnitrix). AF Ben was the worst Ben 10k out of them all, his design is boring and it was a horrible idea to have him take on only the powers of his aliens, it defeats the purpose of the omnitrix's original purpose (so that aliens of the universe would have a better understanding of each other) plus his personality is so much like his 15 year old self that it's not even funny. OV Ben 10k is fairly good personality and design wise (though his green and white shirt is an eye sore). I like that they finally showed us him interacting with Kai as a married couple. Though the thing I like most about OV Ben 10k is his Biomnitrix. The idea of being able to fuse any two of his aliens together is such an awesome idea and the combinations are limitless.
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Speaking of buggy systems, can we please talk about how DA(at least, the mobile version)'s recent redesign makes it next-to-impossible to get into your profile and/or messages?
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I hate the new Icon most of all but ever since the redesign I can't look at messages on my phone when I used to be able to.
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Agreed. Here's hoping they fix that particular bug in the very near future...
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Yup it gets annoying when I forget about it and go to messages on my phone and a blank screen is all I see.
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